I spent some time today being comfortably numb.
Then, unfortunately, it wore off.
It could have been much worse, it could have been not numb while the dentist was busy.
Yeah, dentists. Hell to be with them, infinitely worse to be without them.
When people start talking about revolution, or the end of the world – inevitably ‘revolutionaries’ (who are, um, actually reactionaries in power wanting to maintain their power and status quo as often as not) who want dissenters like the Sad Puppies put down, Climate Change ‘deniers’ re-educated in suitable camps if not executed, and a long list of horrible Western people – sometimes entire political viewpoints, or ethnicities and religions that they want eradicated or badly punished until they appreciate the blessings of their ‘progressive’ diktats.
Well, sometimes Armageddon seems like a good idea to me.
No, not really, but briefly anyway, there is a temptation to let these people have what they think they want.
They fondly imagine that they will be the Cheka, that they will be giving the orders and somehow immune to what happens – except in a positive (for them) sense. Somehow, when those nasty white people, Christians, Jews, heterosexuals, conservatives etc. are shown the error of their ways, the irredeemable ones ‘put down’, the will be rest industriously laboring to make amends and provide the good things for the ‘self-selected chosen’ (i.e.: them, by their own nomination and selection). The non-chosen will put in lifetimes — theirs and their children’s children, to the nth generation — of guilt-ridden servile kowtowing and, naturally, payment. Not ‘payment’ really, re-payment for the sins of their evil forefathers. Things will be wonderful for the ‘self-selected chosen’. They will have endless non-binary sex in a multicultural world (one with lots of exotic food – that being where it stops as far they’re concerned) a world of plenty –for them. Oh and in their daydream Damian Walter will be a bestseller without actually having to do that tedious ‘writing’ (never mind the degrading concept of ‘entertaining’. He will just put his name on each page, get his slave Correia to ghost-write a denouncement of those evil people and the new-peasants will buy it, praise Damian’s genius and slobber for more of this great literature telling them how awful they are and how much they owe the great liberators.).
Huh. Meanwhile, in the real world…
The few of us that have actually had the misfortune to experience civil war, or even the fringes of real disaster (especially where support from ‘outside’ just wasn’t there), or have actually experienced the third world with an understanding of the local language and without the ‘joys’ of rose-tinted spectacles, know there are no outright winners in revolution, in civil war, or the collapse of Western civilization, or even in the dictatorship of the ‘right people’ they dream of (trust me – it’s ALWAYS ‘for the greater good’, and ‘for the children’ and ‘the will of the people’ – but strangely only the dictator and his family and heavily armed and brutal enforcers have Breitling watches, Mercedes Benzes, full stomachs and working plumbing).
Everyone loses something, even the winners, if there are any. Those who gleefully imagined putting their enemies up against the wall, or at least the police or army they ordered to do so, doing their will… are likely to find that same army or policeman putting them up against the wall. That has happened time and time again (but this time it will be different. Not.). And it is perfectly plausible that those various ‘nasty’ people are actually much, much better at surviving revolution, or disaster or even TEOWAKI. They probably don’t rely on the police or military to do their shooting. Hell, they probably are the police or military, or ex-military, if not their friends and kin.
And yet even the best armed, finest trained, and best prepped, living in a remote place with clear lanes of fire and lots of game, water and fertile soil… get toothache. Or appendicitis. Or have a yen for real toilet paper, not a corn-cob. And will lose friends and relations (some across the divide, and some on their own side).
Compared to the urban hipster – who probably is among those who think those evil conservative gun-toting Christian preppers and Sad Puppies should be rounded up and sent for re-education until they are suitably servile and ready for the ‘atoning repayments’ – yes, the veteran, the prepper, the conservative, the Christian with his or her little community will ‘thrive’. The urban hipster’s dreams of power and position will be 100% destroyed (and most likely, his city, and his pumpkin spice soy latte), and any who survive will be tough and nasty and ‘a million generations removed from their expectations’. Even given unlikely possibility of his ‘winning’, by successfully co-opting those police and military to be the government ‘helping’ redistribution, and them not turning on the hipster, well, it’s not urban hipsters who grow the food or fix the plumbing. Thriving is relative. It’s not without cost – cost in comforts, and for some, medical essentials.
There is a delusion among some of those who long for their non-binary future in which Sad Puppies are put down that this ‘cost’ will just allow them to get their own way (because they don’t compromise, and we do), until one day they pop those nasty evil people who dare to disagree with them into the cattle cars with impunity, because they will have been disarmed and broken, by taking over all organizations and isolating and shutting down their dissent – gradually, with the co-operation of the law and media they have infiltrated. Boiling the frog slowly, as it were.
In my opinion: That comes closer to having any chance at all, rather than declaring they’ve won and starting the trains to the Gulag. But people aren’t frogs, unless they have recently had an unfortunate encounter with a magician. The internet has opened up channels of communication. And the world economic situation… is sliding into depression or worse, with a sort of glacial inevitability (with increasingly frantic attempts to kick that can a bit further down the road), which is turning up the heat under the frogs/people. They’re that close to jumping out of the pot right now.
There is a point where easiest going, most laid-back people turn nasty. Inevitably the ones poking them with sharp sticks for years are always terribly surprised at how angry and how vengeful the placid-seeming-who-did-not-respond actually are. They expect us to continue, to behave with a decency and generosity they never have shown. I think they’ve about used that up. I think that turning point is closer than I’ve ever seen it, and there is a lot of willful blindness from the people who will be worst hurt. Why I think that goes beyond the scope of this post, but that’s my opinion. Hey, I have been wrong with monotonous regularity. I actually wouldn’t mind being wrong this time, either.
So what is this post about? This is a writing site after all – so it’s about TEOWAKI – and writing about it. I was talking about Carrington events (as one form this could take, outside of politics or economics). Now even by lifetime prepper standards I’m well prepared, basically because of where I live and how I live. Yes, I am a self-sufficiency nutter—partly by choice, and partly as a response to economic necessity. I live on a remote island that produces and exports a lot of food. I was born and bred a hunter-gatherer and I’ve fed a family and half the neighborhood on less than a dollar a day for years. I’m sure if you drop me buck naked in bush here, I’d sit and shiver and whine myself to death because I can’t get on Facebook…
Okay, not really. It’s a long way from a fire-bow to Facebook… but I’d miss that dentist (much more than Facebook).
If I just wrote a fictional account of this… I’d write a boring mary-sue. As boring as the average message fiction… Because staying alive is about not taking chances. It’s about using your head, your skills, and not heroics. Heroics are for people with better odds. You hunt lizards and baby birds and plants you know and shellfish, not lions or even large prey until the odds (via weapons) are heavily skewed your way.
Now one of the things about TEOWAKI is that it has been written about a lot. From DAMNATION ALLEY
to The Pelbar Cycle
And what makes the stories is not being prepared, having common sense, having done your homework and having your bug-out bag and prepared destination ready. It’s not about the reality of shooting starving hipsters on the run from starving gangsters (although that has more potential). It’s not about how the well-prepared knowledgeable individual solves the problems of metallurgy or gun-smithing or riving oak. These are very interesting, especially to some of us, and there could be a book there. It’s not even about the reality that in any other setting but wealthy, comfortable Western Civilization… most of the designated victim classes now demanding that ‘repayment’ would be lucky to live, and consider ‘making sammiches’ a good deal. That’s how it is now, let alone in TEOWAKI, in most of anywhere but the West.
The key to these stories is always the people, the unprepared, the unexpected, and how they survive. It could be that militant feminist or gay atheist or urban hipster. To be plausible and entertaining there will be some changes…
And therein lies the story.
Let’s hope we don’t have to live in it, or that the ‘cost’ of not living in it does not become too high.
And that there are dentists and Novocaine.
Mad Genius Club 
Almost all people are unprepared for a big change in lifestyle that any sort of disaster, political or natural would bring. And this century is bring changes by the ship, plane and trainload.
It’s very evident among that the Anti-SP, SJW and much of media live in bubbles that are separated from reality. I’ve tried to have a discussion with some, but they refuse to recognized the facts that are obvious, apparently physical truths and facts disagree with their fantasy world.
It would be fascinating to do some demographic research and survey their ranks and find out what sort of background and lifestyle enables these distorted viewpoints. How many grew up poor, served in the military, have widely traveled, have a hard science degree, are active in the local community, are well read outside their genre? Do they actually understand the coming historical changes that going to wreak their bubbles?
Chris – my experience of the anti-SP SJW crowd runs parallel to my experience of kids. The less they know the more convinced they are you are stupid and know nothing. I’ve yet to meet one who wasn’t largely sheltered from the big bad world. And this colors their ideas of ‘poor’ and other things (Their desperate ‘poor’ is not being able to afford the newest model i-phone, today, the moment it is available. How they have suffered! Or not to get the apartment they wanted and have to settle for something that doesn’t fulfill every detail of their desire. Their ‘persecuted’ is the awful slight of a wolf-whistle from a building-site etc.)
And no, they simply believe history is on their side. Any change will only be for the better for them.
I saw a Kindle book where the blurb basically said “End of Civilization, End of Technology and That’s Great”. I doubt that the author really understood how the lose of technology would impact his life.
Of course, there was also the stupid ending of New Battlestar Galactica where everybody in the refugee fleet just walked away into the wilderness abandoning all technology. It’s one thing to lose technology but to just give up every bit of high tech?
Morons.
Yes, but the refugee fleet was the bad guys in that reboot. The intro before each episode made that very clear.
And all those “bad people” just decided that they had to atone/die for their sins by going out into the wilderness. [Sarcastic Grin]
Witness what happens when the electricity is off for a few days following some relatively minor natural disaster. Most urban people have no clue what to do. Things start to fall apart that quick.
(Me, I’ve lived for extended periods with neither electricity nor plumbing, and am only mildly inconvenienced.)
Real quick, in the inner city. And if transportation is down too, and it’s not just a very localized disaster – well, the larger cities will have the most horrendous mortality. In winter… no heat. In summer no water. And 95% of the people with no idea what to do. Civilization depends heavily on voluntary co-operation with civilized norms. The police or army cannot be everywhere (even if they’re not busy trying to look after their own families, and command does not just fall apart) and hungry thirsty scared and desperate people will do terrible things. The only way of stopping it is fast and hard, and that is not going to be easy. In the long term – a week max the cities would have to be evacuated. The country folk will not welcome those refugees.
Exactly. And country folk (given that part of *being* country folk is helping and relying on each other) *would* welcome those refugees, except that 1) country life simply can’t sustain those numbers, especially of people who have no clue about the work involved and have to be trained from scratch (and meanwhile are eating your seed corn), and 2) country folks don’t have a high tolerance for whining about country life, which is pretty much all you’d hear from those urban refugees. I expect the first few would be welcomed, that being the nature of country folks, but they’d soon learn better, and later waves would be discouraged in no uncertain terms.
Seems to me the point where modern urban life *really* falls apart is when clean water becomes scarce, and masses of people are confronted with the twin whammies of thirst and disease. Unaccustomed folks can make do without modern food, shelter, and even heat a lot better than they can do without safe drinking water. Some water systems are gravity-fed and gravity-filtered, and would keep going even after things fell apart; some rely on electric or diesel and chlorine, and those would be goners, or at best you’d be back to boiling river water after you haul it in a bucket. Assuming you can find a bucket, and know how to start a fire…
(What’s with this reply form today? there’s about six inches of extra blank space.)
Thank you for reminding me of the Pelbar Cycle. I devoured those books when they first appeared.The original artwork for “The Fall of the Shell” is still one of my favorite covers ever.
I loved the books – but the kindle price (the pictures are links) are ridiculous.
Agree about the price for the Pelbar Cycle books. I remember enjoying them but not sure if the price is worth finding out if I’d still enjoy them.
Was really hoping there would be an affordable Kindle omnibus edition of the Pelbar books. Like there was for Alan Dean Foster’s Icerigger trilogy. I’d buy that in a second. For these prices, though, I’m with you and Paul Howard.
Amen.
We’re pretty darn rural, and we’re prepared for a lot of minor things, like wildfires, blizzards, etc. And if tech went away for very long we’d start digging. Graves. Because within a week after his meds ran out, we’d lose the first family member. And I’m sure we’re weird for having thought about it, but about a third of the year digging is a problem out here, and we’ve dug dog graves in advance of winter when they’re getting old.
You know, those folks get left out of the TEOTWAWKI stories, for the most part. But in reality, they’d be a huge portion of the population. Probably because not many want to read or write the story where the character knows their days are numbered.
Dan Forrester, sane genius and diabetic of Lucifer’s Hammer by Jerry Pournelle & Larry Niven.
He died by the end of the story but managed to help others quite well.
But yes, diabetics would be in big trouble.
Dialysis; pacemakers; cancer is once again an automatic, unappealable death sentence…
Then extreme mass starvation. Doomsayers talk about distribution of food breaking down; they don’t realize that this isn’t really a problem – there will be very little food to distribute. Even where water for crops comes from a surface source – very little of it does not require a pumping operation at some point these days.
I have completely annoyed several “survivalists” by asking them one simple question – do you know where to get salt? (That is one bit of “Alas, Babylon” that rang so very, very true.)
Well, it used to be you’d break into the highway department storage sites… until the hipsters made it so they don’t use actual salt any more.
Stirling’s “Dies the Fire” is pretty explicit about what happens when tech suddenly vanishes.
I think there’s an Indian solution to the salt dilemma. It’s noted in one of Swanton’s books.
Salt Lake City. Salt stores easily and cheaply. By the time we ran out matters would be settled enough for that much trade. *evil prepper grin*
Reality Observer, depends when the distributution stops, doesn’t it? Give us the winter and spring to fix the old ditches and we’ll do better than if the collapse comes midsummer. There are large areas that dry farm, but we aren’t in one, so I worry about irrigation, too. Best fast collapse for us would be this time of year. But I think the folks who think we’re in a slow collapse already have a pretty decent case.
This weekend, the owner of a local cafe was saying he can’t get certain products anymore – 20 oz coffee cups, for one, and a few other odds and ends that have never been short. Gluten free bagel mix was another “out of stock, no idea on restock date” item. I’m noticing stores with less variety on shelves and in the catalogues, especially food items at the lower to low-middle price range.
erhm. That is mildly alarming. Kinda like canaries going silent…
I’ve noticed the same … not that I can absolutely specify an item … just things that I used to see and look for now and again, aren’t there.
TXRed, where is this? Because I’m not seeing it here around Dallas.
Nor am I. Our utility buys 20 oz Styrofoam cups by the cases. No problems. The only thing I’ve noticed is the failure of a retailer to maintain stock on shelves, and that’s due to the rise of the clueless bean counters and incompetent management. Fortunately, the area grocers and dollar stores don’t seem to have that problem.
Dumas and Amarillo
And just learned that scallops ( an occasional Redquarters treat) are going away for the season. They’ll come back at least $5 per bag higher, and the top end will be at least that much more per pound as well. Didn’t ask why, since there was a line.
While I haven’t investigated it, I’d check and see if we haven’t had some new regs imposed by the Feds making this happen.
I’m not seeing it to the extent you are, but I am seeing some of that here in Cincinnati. At both of the supermarket chains I routinely shop at, the produce selections are getting worse, some products stay of stock longer, and others are no longer carried or are replaced by “inferior” substitutes.
Examples:
1. The number of varieties of fresh-baked breads is down at one chain, and the mass-produced bread options also seem to have been reduced.
2. Makers, varieties, and number of actual bottles of unrefrigerated bottled juice appear reduced at both chains. The number of facings seems the same, but they’re not stocked as deep onto the shelf.
3. Certain cuts of beef seem less common.
Also, I think the supermarkets are cutting back on hours, as the shelves don’t seem to get restocked as quickly as they used to.
That’s the rise of the clueless bean counters and incompetent management thing. What you are seeing is the result of dim ideas coupled with lack of experience. For instance, we have no shortage of meats at all. Only one retailer has horrible fresh produce, because clueless bean counters and incompetent managers usually haven’t seen the good stuff.
I think you may be right. Also, I think the “just-in-time” logistics model degrades to a “not-quite-in-time” model when management F’s up.
Or when there is ANY kind of hitch in the supply chain.
Also on the beef, I know the drought of the last several years out in my neck of the woods (great plains cattle country) meant a lot of folk sold off huge amounts of their stock because they couldn’t afford the hay prices to feed them. Now that we have hay they’re re-building their herds so aren’t selling nearly as much. Beef prices and cut availability have predictably suffered.
There have been new regulations put out on trucking, I know– to “prevent accidents” that were actually caused by folks who can’t drive. (Both in the big rig and in the normal car sense.)
Bonus, the Teamsters are being jerks here in Seattle, and last I listened to the Lars Larson show they were doing it in Portland, and I’d be shocked if not other places too. Flexing. Makes variety hard.
I know that my sister’s job has been cutting hours for Obamacare avoidance, too– and they haven’t been hiring more people to fill the gaps like they did last year.
On the beef: you know those forest fires that hit the west coast last year? And the year before? The forest service is using that to not lease grazing rights. And the enviros are cutting water all over.
Has to do with that each product has to buy space on the store shelves, and if a given market isn’t profitable (not enough volume of sales) they’ll give up that shelf space. Or the store isn’t seeing enough profit from that item, and drops it in favor of carrying more of some better-seller. Likely a bunch of stuff went away at once because it’s all contracted through the same wholesaler. But the effect we see at the consumer level is that products mysteriously disappear from the retail shelves.
This, and other economies of scale, are why as the years go by there’s less and less variety in staples and basic products, and why specialty markets tend to be so much more expensive (even for stuff that costs no more to produce).
And sometimes there’s a corporate feud, like the pricing tiff between Costco and Hershey that kept Hershey products off Costco’s shelves for several years. (Got that straight from a Costco manager.)
Yep. It always amuses me when the Usual Suspects go off into the “loss of technology” raptures. Not ever realizing that it is the groups they hate the most (those White Mormon Males, those Backwoods Baptist Hicks) that will adapt, overcome, and thrive – while they die in droves. (The most fit of them I figure might, just might get as far as 30 miles beyond city limits.)
Speaking of salt and white Mormon males, who was it that had the foresight to settle over one of the biggest salt reserves in North America? 🙂
Huh. I never looked at it that way. That’s actually pretty clever. That said, if I was asked (I’m not -yet- a survivalist, but I am trying to learn) where I’d get salt, my first thought would likely have been “the ocean!” I mean…it’s right there, waiting to be collected after a bit of evaporation, right? Of course it’d be a lot of work to get large amounts of salt that way, but at least it’s an option. 🙂
There are quite a few hobby farm hippies who’d do fine because they’re nearly off grid now. The Super Lib at my husband’s work who tried to turn down eggs from my hens because they weren’t pasteurized… Not so much.
Well, even for me – living near the sea – it’s a real issue at 35 grams per litre that need evaporation and little else. And it is our major preservative.
I’m from the part of the country where we need no irrigation. But we raise field corn and soybeans. Those really aren’t for human consumption, but you can eat them if you must. Definitely not a well-balanced diet. We don’t have seed or equipment to raise anything else. Mr. Diesel build an engine that farmers could fuel themselves by pressing oilseed, but nobody has presses. There aren’t many guys who have draft horses, and those are trained for shows, not field work. The old guys who know -how- to use them are passing away. The Amish will be fine, but I fear that the ‘English’ will kill them seeking their resources, and then find out that they’ve killed the goose that laid the golden egg.
If it is an economic TEOTAWKI, I would expect Mexico to take the Southwest, Russia, Alaska, and China at least Hawaii. OPEC would work to control the rest, starting with Deerbornistan. I would expect the Democrats to rule things with an iron fist, with very effective propaganda swaying the middle to turn in the resistance, any ‘loners’, ‘preppers’ etc.
I love field corn when it’s pulled at the right time. Prefer it over sweet corn. If the fertilizer hits the fan, remember to make hominy out of that corn first. It unlocks more of the nutrients. Indians figured it out and did fine; settlers didn’t and ended up with pellagra. Note that the Indians also planted pole beans at laying by time and use the dying corn stalks as poles. Of course, the corn was planted further apart than is done now. The squash-in-the-corn thing might be a modern invention, but all three help supply nutrients.
Think most could rig an oil press. Having the stock is another issue.
Also, succotash (corn + lima beans) can form some proteins when digested, IIRC.
Just remember that beans, and in particular soybeans, are poisonous if insufficiently processed…. and soybeans contain sufficient phytoestrogens to cause infertility and birth defects in male children. (Flaxseed meal is 3x worse.) Soybeans are what you feed your enemies if you want to reduce their numbers and feminize their men.
This explains so much about California.
🙂 Ya beat me to it (but I’d extend that to a lot of other cities)
Russia would be in worse shape than we would.
Russia always has accepted bigger casualties than we do. And in some ways have people who lived under communism to help with how to do with not having things
I meant as far as reclaiming anything, their logistics have always sucked worse than ours, and if we’re falling apart, I doubt they’re going to keep THEIR tech going, not with having all their eggs in one economic basket at the current time.
Point. At least old russian stuff was build so it was fixable by a desperate an ingenious peasant, and built to be worked on by the same…
Actually depends on what equipment you’re talking about. During the soviet years a lot of their farming equipment broke down and simply could not be fixed. They couldn’t get parts. They couldn’t make parts. Even as recently as 10 years ago their main coolant was vodka which they had to lace with cyanide in order to prevent people from sneaking into the hangers and draining the lines so they could drink the stuff.
Yep. I made a comment on facebook about what people would do if there was a major Carrington event. I know my readers tend to the practical and pragmatic folk ;-). A lot of people said ‘die.’ – meds, disability, age… It’s grim. Not as grim by a couple of orders of magnitude as what would happen to most SJW – you’d think they’d be into prepping. But they think the government would he’p them.
I’m kind of on the fringes of civilization, myself. And while not nearly as prepared as I’d like to be, I’d be able to get by. Especially with enough advanced warning to get to one of the sites I’ve scoped out, get some spadework done, and some crops in the ground.
(Of course, I also live in an agicultural area where about half the population is Mormon and we’ve got pretty secure supply lines for gas and propane. The odds are very good that I’d never have to run for the hills in the first place.)
The question is if I’d want to. Without modern medicine, the lifespan of my wife and oldest daughter would be measured in weeks. I don’t wish to know how I’d bear up after those blows. (I mean, I’d have to for the sake of the other kids, at least for the short to medium term. But I doubt I’d be good company.)
I hear you. I face the issue of my kids being very far off, the older one and wife in a crowded country and a crowded city on the other side of the world. IF they survived a collapse, we’d certainly be unlikely to know or ever find out. The younger one – well they could well be OK, but we’re too far to reach each other – which would break my heart. That said, my own feeling is that breakdown will be slow, and regional.
What about the French, aren’t they frogs? 😛
The little ones are tadpoles 🙂
Pushing it out there.
I do not fear a Carrington Event for reasons I’ve gone into ad nauseam (yes, I’ve been tempted to write a novel about it). What I fear is a growing lack of faith in systems of government. Once you no longer trust government to act in a non-partisan manner and abide by it’s own laws, then the only thing left is distrust. And when you no longer trust the government to protect you and yours, you look for someone who at least says they’ve got your back. The end result is very similar to gang violence, except on a wider scale.
I do not fear a real revolution; I fear dissolution where society breaks down along factional lines, Then comes the strong men who promise to “do what is necessary” to restore order, and so do on a regional basis, and then, if the whole world falls apart at the same time, maybe one strong man.
it will not be pleasant.
Nope. The guy on the white horse might as well be the pale horseman on the pale (Schimmel – glowing like foxfire in the German translation) horse.
The American Left is not able to gain power by revolutionary means. They don’t have enough “rough men” to either directly size power, or to maintain it. The past century of Leftist disdain and outright hatred of law enforcement, military, use of force, et al is even now bearing fruit- they need the active cooperation of us on the Right within the bounds of the previously agreed rules and institutions (the Constitution). They don’t have the strength to go outside those lines.
Say what you will about the murderous [deleted] bastard [deleted] Bolsheviks, but you don’t see Trotsky or Stalin cringing in safe spaces. Mao and Fidel weren’t shuddering at various trigger phrases.
Joe I’ve had precisely this argument with many left-wingers. Their theory always boils down to: is they will take over government, government will give the orders to the police, the courts and army. In the ‘slow boil’ that’s exactly what happens. In disaster… no. In boiling the frog too fast,,, i don’t know.
I honestly think you’re wrong about the ‘safe spaces’ – they’re NOT about safety or a need for it. It’s just apartheid a privileged place from which lesser people are excluded. The same with ‘trigger phrases’ – they’re largely nothing more than a faux excuse for outrage and demanding more perks as recompense. It’s like football players and a three act injury drama – to get a penalty kick for their side. The trouble with that is that geniune issues will be hurt as more people realize that most of it’s just drama for the return it gives. Like crying wolf, it will not end well.
Boiling the frog too fast is what has been happening the last decade. Especially, these last six. It’s too much, too fast and that is why more moderate and conservative folks are uneasy and saying so. If they were smart, they’d keep up the slow boil, however, they’re impatient which will eventually be their downfall.
They’ll elect a Republican RINO who will slow the boil, but never reverse things. If they’re smart.
“government, government will give the orders to the police, the courts and army. In the ‘slow boil’ that’s exactly what happens.”
dave, they’re fools to assume that. See Oathkeepers, etc. In 2000, I was working an IT contract at Maxwell AFB, home to the Air War College, Squadron Officers School, NCO Academy, etc. I wasn’t surprised when I heard 2nd Lts and airmen saying that Al Gore might not be able to find anyone to fly Air Force One if he stole the election via the courts. I was real surprised to hear 30 year Master Sergeants and full colonels saying the same thing… and serious.
Well, yes … long-serving military and military retirees tend to be very serious, and have well-thought-out opinions.
And in the event of the SJ-Whiners thinking that they can just take over and merrily give orders to law enforcement and military, and the people they otherwise tend to think of as mindless robots will obey … yes, see the Oathkeepers about that.
I can only see it working with an extremely, extremely slow slow boil. And in my opinion – 1)economics is turning the heat up fast. 2)Their impatience is cranking it up faster. But it’s not my country and not my experiences.
I think they mistake silence for consent and indeed, support.
The American Left already holds power. Congress is afraid to actually resist, just talk. Most people will just follow orders. The news will reiterate that the resistance are white supremicist neo-nazis who want to bring back slavery. Most moderates will believe them, and all the kool-aide drinkers will.
Gun confiscation has been going on in several States, with no active resistance, just as in New Orleans after Katrina.
I don’t think that this can end well.
I follow a number of firearms blogs, and all I’m seeing is that states are trying to impose new controls and being ignored. Connecticut and New York are prime examples: under 10% compliance in both.
Oh, and as for New Orleans and Katrina? They had to have a set of circumstances that will be difficult to replicate, and now too many people are aware they might try that.
Gun rights is a major bread and butter issue for the Republicans. Opposing gun control puts dollars in campaign coffers, voters in booths, and counts as really easy place to Stand Up For Principles. And, guns are popular.
They may get squishy on a lot of stuff, but that won’t be one of them.
Maybe because we can see that all other rights follow from having the right to defend your rights. Even freedom of speech follows from having the right and ability to defend your right to speak.
TEOTWAKI doesn’t scare me. Minor regional events scare me. TEOTWAKI scares the ever-loving sh*t out of me.
See, I used to work in a grocery store. Deli counter and prepared foods. My location was a few miles outside of a major Northeastern city, right smack in Upper Class SJW Soccer Mom paradise. The stories I could tell…
My first Easter there, our distributor screwed up and shorted our store something like twenty cases of hams. The meat department was able to cover its pre-orders and catering dept. commitments, but only just. There were maybe a dozen or so hams left to put out for last-minute customers. I personally witnessed one fistfight over a ham and heard secondhand reports of several others. I watched people steal hams out other peoples’ carts. When the meat department’s hams ran out, people came over to the deli counter and *demanded* that we sell them our hams for the same sale price as the meat department’s (completely different product, with ours at a substantially higher price), and threaten us with physical violence as a result. More than one person tried to come around the counter and make good on those threats; I had one crazy lady chase me into the back of the store on my way to *finally* clock out at the end of my shift, screaming at the top of her lungs that I find her a ham.
This wasn’t a major storm or natural disaster: that was a shipping screw up on a major holiday. And yet people’s first instinct was to resort to threats and outright violence not because they were starving, but because they couldn’t get what they wanted.
The last two winters we had were particuarly brutal. Winter before last, we averaged one major “winter event,” i.e. a significant snow or ice storm, per week from December through March. At each and every announcement of an impending storm, the local populace went into full-tilt panic-buying mode, even after four months of this nonsense. And to make matters worse, the area where our Corporate HQ and most of our warehouses are located got hit incredibly hard, as in ten+ feet of snow hard, so our supply lines were pretty well buggered up. We never, ever ran out of food, though we did run out of the majority of our popular items, and most of what was in stock were things that people did not normally buy. We didn’t have white American cheese, for example, for most of January, but we had plenty of yellow.
From the way the population reacted, you would have thought a) had actually completely run out of food, and/or b) had not in fact run out of any products but were simply refusing to sell it to them because were evil and greedy and wanted it all for ourselves. Again, food being stolen out of others’ carts, at least one fistfight (over no-fat American cheese, of all things!) and plenty of threats of physical violence towards us counter slaves. I distinctly remember telling one guy that, fine, he could come back behind the counter and beat me senseless if it made him feel better, but it wouldn’t change the fact that we were out of his favorite kind of turkey and would not be getting any more for the foreseeable future.
Let me repeat: we had plenty of food, just not the exact kinds of food that our customers wanted. And again, we damn near had riots over it.
Same thing happened last year, only our shipping/distribution area was spared so we were able to keep pretty much everything in stock. Except rock salt: nobody in the area could keep rock salt in stock for more than a few hours at a time. We actually had to move the stuff inside (normally it was stored right outside the front door) because people would pull up, load a hundred pounds or more into the back of their vehicle, and then drive off with it without paying.
The point of this long-winded, rambling comment is that these were all minor events. Nobody was in any danger of starving (or if they were, it was their own dumbass fault because they’d rather starve than eat anything other than organic, no-fat, no-salt cold cuts) and yet the majority of people were acting like it was the end of the world. If an *actual* end-of-the-world scenario, or a major natural disaster rolls around… I have a pretty good idea of exactly how they’ll react. And I’ll be honest, it keeps me awake at night.
With my luck, I’d end up starving surrounded by pounds of food I couldn’t eat … peanut butter, tuna fish (great staples if you’re not allergic). So, between food allergies & drugs, I probably wouldn’t last too long.
Drugs, health issues… we have no idea how sheltered we actually are (even people like me, who are relatively free of major allergies and medical issues, and live on fringe of civilization).
That reminds me: the best part [/sarcasm] was that during pre-hurricane panics, prepared foods top-sellers were always, in no particular order, egg salad, tuna salad, and chicken salad. I’d always ask people who were stocking up if they had a generator. The overwhelming majority said “no.”
They were planning on being without power for several days, and stocking up on food that goes bad if you look at it funny. *facepalm*
And if they had a generator… was it near-silent? And did they have fuel? (I have generator, and no it isn’t silent, but I do have around 50-80 gallons of fuel and 10-15 gallons of boat/chainsaw fuel on hand at any given moment. Not because I’m prepping but because the fuel station is not open 24/7 (5 and half days a week, normal trading hours) and is 20 miles away. And it is cheaper.
Wow. Excellent and insightful comment – almost worth of a post of its own. I must admit, that’s a window into a world I don’t live in and can’t really relate to. I believe you though. I’ve seen enough of the periphery of it to know you’re 100% on target.
Oh I know about the food thing! We lived briefly in NY. Now I grew up Mormon so I always, *always* have extra food, water and batteries. No biggie for us. But the grocery stores were off the rails! We went once just to see what was going on before a big snowfall was forecast. We stayed maybe two minutes. I’ve seen calmer sporting events after a bad call than that place. People pushing and shoving their way to stuff. One big man even knocked over a little girl to get to something.
Out of curiosity, was said store a Wegmans?
This is why I’m always amused at people who say they’re prepared for disaster but are horrified at the thought of owning a gun. The term for unarmed preppers in any disaster is “prey”.
One of my now-former coworkers once told me that his “disaster prepping” consisted solely of stocking up on ammunition and that if TEOWAKI ever did happen, he’d go and steal whatever he wanted at gunpoint and shoot anyone who didn’t give up their stuff. Idiot actually told me to my face that he’d hoped I’d be “cooperative” when he came to my house.
I just replied with, “Well then it’s a good thing you don’t know where I live.” I think he thought I meant that because I didn’t want him to steal my food (I keep a week or so’s worth of canned goods and bottled water on hand just in case), but I really said it because now that I knew his plans, if a TEOTWAKI-event ever happened, I would have shot him dead on sight, and I’d prefer not to make his wife a widow and his daughter an orphan.
Fortunately, the reason he’s now an ex-coworker is because I moved to the other side of the state, so I don’t have to worry about that possibility anymore.
I remember reading about non-preppers who think all preppers were like that moron.
In real TEOWAKI you will be shot – to kill – on sight, by most survivors. No warnings, no allowing to get close. Either the survivors will hide well or if findable – Hungry dogs (fed in the morning) will be outside at night, and there will be people awake and on guard. The survivors will buddy up. But they will have no interest in passengers or those who have neither food nor skills and weapons to bring. As I said, making sammiches would be great deal for most SJWs.
All of which is why I repeat (possibly ad nauseam, but that’s why it’s a lesson) YOU will not survive the zombine apocalypse (Well, maybe you will, Dave, but most will not). All the energy expended by city-dwellers toward surviving it would be far better spent preventing its onset. No, I am without clue as to how.
I could not agree with you more, Mark. And the people with most to lose are the ones pushing the situation into closer proximity with disaster. But their answer is: we must give way, entirely, to their wishes. And then all will be well…
As with SP issue, the only way out is for compromise, reasonable behavior, But compromise requires trust and requires both sides give ground. Brad tried desperately to compromise. He gave a lot of ground was very trusting. They used it to attack him. If they want to take the heat off – in this and any other issues, they’re going to have alter that, and rebuild trust.
There is no further give in me.
Dave, my problem is that after watching their dishonesty for 25 years I literally can’t ever trust the Left again. On anything.
That was kind of the point I made after Hugos – and on other occasions. There is a sort of assumption from the left that they lied to us, abused our trust last time, (and the time before and the time before) that they can do exactly the same if they ever need our help or compliance. They just don’t get that opportunity and trust are finite, just like charity. You can abuse them to a point… and then it is over. The funny thing is the left always expects us to be the mature, responsible ones– when I pointed out that the next time around the puppies would not ‘play fair’ and would probably vote en bloc (as the Puppy Kickers did – and we did not- they accused us of this loudly and often and lo, when the figures came out it confirmed THEY voted en bloc, and Puppies had not) and vote ‘No Award’ for puppy kicker supported darlings, unread… there was a horrified ‘but you could never be so immature’. My point – for the left- and it is probably too late now, is they need to accept they have no credibility and they have to – as soon as possible – start rebuilding that credibility. It’s a long hard slow process, which will cost them very dearly. Otherwise… they can imagine they can just lie again, but when they need to comprise, need help no-one will trust them, no matter how sincere they are, or what they offer to do.
Short time preferences bite you in the ass in the end.
Brad: I love everybody!
SJWs: KILL HIM!
That was the point where mine ran out as well.
Well yes.
Because when Brad Torgersen says “I love everybody” he means “everybody.”
When SJWs say “I love everybody”, they mentally tack on “except the people who disagree with me too much.”
Own AND can use proficiently (and be prepared to use). And have ammo and can do basic repairs safely, and have spares. And reload.
Yes to all of those except the reloading; I do have a basic unit of fire for a company stashed here and there.
On the other hand, I was once at a surplus store and overheard some skinny weaselish guy (the maybe-crazy-and-might-bite-you type, not the ineffectual sneaky type) bragging to the cashier about how in the event of Apocalypse, he’d be juuuuuuust fine; “I don’t have to store food, I’ve got guns and can take it from people who did”. My first thought, which I did not share because weasel, was “so you’ve just *advertised* that you should be shot on sight in TEOTWAWKI. Smart!”
Consider it truth in advertising! 🙂
The dumber the general criminal population the easier it is to get rid of them and get on with rebuilding in such a case. It’s the SMART ones that really gum up the works and cause no end of grief.
Speaking of the end of the world, Pam just posted on her blog (comments, most recent post) about a family tragedy. I figure any regulars here who aren’t regulars there would want to be able to keep her and hers in their thoughts and prayers.
post link please
http://pamuphoff.livejournal.com/297569.html#comments
“There is a point where easiest going, most laid-back people turn nasty. Inevitably the ones poking them with sharp sticks for years are always terribly surprised at how angry and how vengeful the placid-seeming-who-did-not-respond actually are.”
I am one of those. Most of my friends have a, “when Frank got mad,” story. It tends to be quite memorable.
So do I … mild and calm and easy-going. Until.
I discovered a while back that I had my father’s temper. Reach that certain degree of provocation, and whoops … from calm to nuclear-devastation in the blink of an eye.
The people present at the last time I really lost it (in the on-air studio of AFKN-Yongson sometime in about 1994) – their ears are probably STILL ringing. Yeah, someone came in and asked me for my opinion of a prospective asignee to the AF detachment, since I had been assigned with him previously. Short opinion: no, he was not a good prospect for that unit, and I gave chapter and voice at the top of my voice as to why …
One of the stunned witnesses to that scene later said, “Wow … I’ve never heard you say anything bad about ANYBODY … he must be a real (four-letter word inserted here).
Yes, push mild-mannered people just a smidgen too far … and the explosions will be epic.
This is normal alpha behavior: puts up with a lot from the underlings, but when the alpha finally runs out of patience, the lesson is taught in no uncertain terms.
I started reading your post and I read the first paragraph and the comment about dentists. Yeah, I’m *every* progressive wants to live in a world without dentists. That’s what they want…
Then, embarrassingly, I skipped down to the end so I could chortle about a world without dentists and I saw a mention of the Pelbar cycle. What an under-appreciated series! Like the Rosinante series by Alexis Gilliland, a series that is terribly without appreciation! Thanks for reminding me of both!
It’s not that they WANT to live in a world without dentists; it’s simply the world they will get as the result of their policies.
The only universal law we’ve found is the one of Unintended Consequences.
To echo Michael Z. Williamson . . .
They live in the city, they don’t know how their cars work, they don’t know how their plumbing works, nor their electricity. They don’t know how to make food that doesn’t come from the grocery store. Their idea of farming is tending a potted plant near the apartment window. They have little or no food storage, nor backstock of fresh water. If they suddenly had to leave the city quickly, in case of a genuine emergency, they couldn’t — the streets will be choked by others who are also fleeing, and public transit will be overwhelmed. The best they can do is huddle in their lightless, powerless, waterless high-rise deathraps, while temperatures climb (or fall) to dangerous levels. Unable to flush the toilets, they could begin emptying buckets out windows; assuming the windows even open — many do not. Within three to five days, the looting, burning, and killing will reduce even the most refined, crystalline snowflake to a hollow-eyed, desperate, murderously brutal scavenger.
And in the countryside? Waiting for the walls of city-bred pillagers sweeping outward from the urban apocalypse? A rifle behind every blade of grass. Because even kind-hearted church folk will learn quickly that what isn’t offered in charity, will be taken by bloody force. So they either defend themselves and their property, or they are mulched. And not many of them will settle for being mulched. And a bullet can touch a man at distance, versus a knife, or a length of pipe.
Put simply: it will be a complete horror show.
Our intellectual betters believe it can’t happen. That the trucks will magically bring everything the city needs — to the city folk — forever. That the water and power will flow endlessly. That the proles (us) who keep them alive, and labor endlessly on their behalf; no matter how much they spit on us, undermine our way of life, mock our morals and beliefs, and use the institutions to shut us out and put us down.
When they have printed enough empty money, and the mighty American economic engine seizes at last . . . don’t say we didn’t warn those motherfuckers what was coming.
And even, maybe especially, the kind-hearted Church folk can read. The Bible, of course. And figure out that passage about buying a sword, you know the one, from our Boss. And that one from His assistant about those who don’t work not eating.
Reader’s Digest version of a conversation I had twice while living in California’s high desert, which is still relatively rural (well, it lost the last of its major agriculture only about 10 years ago):
Them (while munching on a McBurger): Killing cows is wrong!
Me: So where did you get that hamburger?
Them: McDonalds.
I shit you not — nominal adults of average education, in a relatively rural town, who did not know that beef comes from cows.
[facepalm-with-both-hands]
RD version of a conversation I had multiple times whilst working in the prepared food counter:
Customer: Where does your smoked salmon come from?
Me: Well, Types A and B are farm-raised, while Type C is wild caught off…
Customer: Wait, wild caught? What does that mean?
Me: It means it was caught off the coast of Nova Scotia.
Customer: *blank, uncomprehending stare*
Me: Uh… by fishermen.
Customer: *dawning look of horror* You mean… that’s a real fish?!?!
Me: Yes sir/ma’am. All three types of smoked salmon are real fish.
Customer: *turns green, slaps both hands over his/her mouth, races to find the nearest bathroom to vomit in.
We also had a regular crazy vegan lady who’d come in once a month or so and always break down in tears upon reaching the seafood counter while berating us employees for “murdering” all those helpless animals. *rolls eyes*
Heh. I point out all the deaths vegan cause…
I make sure my kids are VERY clear on where food comes from, because I don’t want any accidental vegetarians. We have wild turkeys around here (Greater Suburbia.) At seven and five, they’re pretty clear on the fact that the turkey they eat comes from turkeys that are birds (though not the same species; we eat the REALLY dumb ones.)
I once thought the primary crop of Asia must be wheat, because I knew Asian cuisine was heavy on rice, and I thought rice was a form of pasta, which I knew was made largely from wheat. However, I was an elementary school student at the time.
Bravo Brad.
I think one of my issues in dealing with these guys is that I just can’t wrap my head around the fact they just can’t see this. It’s like ‘there is this express train, you’re looking straight at it, its sounding its siren. You aren’t just standing looking at it, you’re running straight towards it. Decent folk – like one Brad Torgersen have risked their necks trying to help you step clear. You’ve slapped their hands away, and sworn at them.’
Are they blind, deaf and stupid? Or actually delusionally mad?
I think it boils down to hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. They have been living within the comfortable framework of modernity for so long, the necessary mechanisms behind the framework are invisible. None of us has to think about those mechanisms — unless we force ourselves to do it. Back home in flyover country road apple Utah, emergency preparedness is a big deal mostly because the LDS church bangs the pulpit about emergency preparedness very often. Every LDS home is admonished to have at least two years of solid consumables on hand. Either canned goods, or dry goods. Likewise, as much potable water as possible. 72-hour “escape” kits. Plenty of tools that can come in handy if the shizzle hits the fan — including firearms. You will seldom find a more heavily-armed, yet also polite and friendly people, than Mormons. (grin)