(Cross-posted to Sad Puppies 4 – will update with the link this afternoon)
The List is done. It’s not all on this page because there’s too much – the full list is viewable here.
My methodology was pretty basic – any comments that were favorable to the work got counted as a +1 and added to the tally. -1 comments or disagreement weren’t counted. I’ve probably been more generous on that front than others, because I included things like “I wish that was eligible” as a +1. A few clearly misplaced votes got moved to the appropriate place. If someone was the only person to suggest their own work, it’s been noted as a self-nomination – which, of course, is not against any rules. If other people voted, the self-nomination didn’t get listed. Works that have questions about whether they were eligible are noted in the full list.
Thank you to every person who took the time to add a suggestion and persevered through WordPress and its infinite weirdness when it comes to allowing things. Thank you also to those who offered their time and assistance in going through the comments thread. There’s nothing hidden here, only a lot of judgment calls on whether something is a genuine recommendation or not. So yes, the satirical suggestions highlighting the SFnal nature of certain modern conflicts are also on the The List.
This is not, never was, and never will be a slate. It’s informational. I hope the herding cats effect contributed to the lack of interest in some categories and that actual nominating numbers are going to be way higher, but in the spirit of encouraging everyone to read, watch, view, and nominate it’s a worthy project. One that I will not be doing without software assistance to autocollate as we go if I get sweet-talked into doing something like this again.
That said, here are the top ten-ish for all the categories, in no particular order (if there weren’t enough suggestions with more than 1 vote or not enough period, there won’t be 10 listed – go to the entire list for the full information and the counts):
Campbell Award for Best New Writer
(which is of course Not A Hugo but piggybacks rather a lot on the Hugo process)
- Andy Weir – The Martian
- Brian Niemeier – Nethereal
- Alyssa Wong – Hungry Daughters of Starving Mothers
- Natasha Pulley – The Watchmakers of Filigree Street
- Becky Chambers – The Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet
- Scott Hawkins – The Library at Mount Char
- Charlie N Holmberg – The Paper Magician
- John Sandford & Ctein – Saturn Run
- Sebastien de Castelle – Great Coats
Interestingly enough almost all of these popped up somewhere in the Best Novel selection, despite not all of them being eligible for the Hugo, being in their second year of Campbell eligibility.
Best Fan Artist
This category was ridiculously split, and one of the most popular suggestions is probably better under Best Dramatic Presentation – Short Form.
- Otaking77077 – TIE Fighter animated film (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PN_CP4SuoTU)
- Karezoid (Michał Karcz) – http://karezoid.deviantart.com/art/Within-The-Choir-of-Ascending-Spirit-571475023
- Michael Callahan – http://www.callahanvisual.com/galacticwarfighters/zl8qd59i0iczlgvsm79u4rfqnxxa7q
- Piper Thibdeau – There wasn’t a link listed, but a lot of work in a lot of places.
Best Professional Artist
This was another insanely split category, with 30-some artists suggested, but not many of them with more than 1 vote apiece.
- Abigail Larson
- Sam Weber
- Frank Cho
- Larry Elmore
- Dustin Nguyen
- Richard Anderson
Best Fan Writer
Yet another one with a whole lot of suggestions at 1 vote apiece.
- Jeffro Johnson – Space Gaming and Castalia House blogs
- Declan Finn – Sad Puppies Bite Back
- Eric Flint – In Defense of Sad Puppies (http://www.ericflint.net/index.php/2015/06/08/in-defense-of-the-sad-puppies/)
- Mike Glyer – Puppy roundup posts on File 770 (http://file770.com/?page_id=22881)
- Brandon Kempner – Chaos Horizon
- Charles Akins – http://dyverscampaign.blogspot.com/p/best-reads-of-week.html
- Dave Freer – Mad Genius Club
- Dorothy Grant (fynbospress) – Mad Genius Club
- Ron Edwards – https://adeptpress.wordpress.com/
- Tea and Jeopardy
- Geek Gab
- Hello Greedo
Best Fanzine
Yes, another one.
- File 770 – http://file770.com/
- Nuke Mars – http://www.nukemars.com/
- Superversive SF – http://superversivesf.com/
- Otherwhere Gazette
- Tangent Online – http://www.tangentonline.com/
Best Semiprozine
This category was so anemic it’s not funny. I get that it’s hard to find semi-pro zines, but still…
- Sci Phi Journal
Yes. It was the only suggestion with more than 1 vote.
Best Editor – Short Form
- Jerry Pournelle – There Will Be War vol X
- John Joseph Adams – Lightspeed, and Nightmare
- S. M. Sterling – The Change anthology
- Jason Rennie – Sci Phi Journal
- Paula Goodlett – Grantville Gazette
- Bryan Thomas Schmidt – Mission: Tomorrow
Best Editor – Long Form
Really, folks? Did y’all think I wouldn’t take any other suggestions?
- Toni Weisskopf – Baen
- Jim Mintz – Baen
- Tony Daniel – Baen
Best Dramatic Presentation – Short Form
Another broad scattering of suggestions here. There’s something like a 15-way tie for 6th place, so I’ll just list down to 10.
- Daredevil Season 1 Episode 2
- My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic
- Person of Interest Season 4 Episode 11: If-Then-Else
- Kung Fury: Laser Unicorns
- TIE Fighter animation by Otaking 77077 – Yes this did also show up in Best Fan Artist. From what I can see both are reasonable, but this is the better fit.
- Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D: Melinda
- Daredevil Season 1 Episode 13
- Doctor Who: Heaven Sent
- Gravity Falls: Dungeons, Dungeons, and More Dungeons
- Gravity Falls: Northwest Mansion Mystery
Best Dramatic Presentation – Long Form
- Mad Max: Fury Road
- The Martian
- Predestination
- Ant-Man
- Star Wars: The Force Awakens
- Inside Out
- iZombie (Season 1 as a whole)
- Person of Interest (Season 4 as a whole)
- Witcher 3: Wild Hunt
- Ex Machina
Best Graphic Story
- Order of the Stick
- Stand Still Stay Silent – any 2015 plot arc
- Schlock Mercenary Book 15
- Empowered Volume 9
- Saga Volume 5
- Erfworld
- Fables: Farewell Volume 22
- Gunnerkrigg Court Chapter 15: Totem
- Invisible Republic Volume 1
- Lazarus: Conclave
Best Related Work
- Sad Puppies Bite Back – Declan Finn
- Appendix N – Jeffro Johnson
- Safe Space as Rape Room: Science Fiction Culture and Childhood’s End – Daniel
- A History of Epic Fantasy – Adam Whitehead
- Atomic Rockets – Winchell Chung
- Legosity – Tom Simon
- There Will Be War Vol X – Edited Jerry Pournelle
- You’re Never Weird on the Internet (Almost) – Felicia Day
- Frazetta Sketchbook Number 2
- Galactic Journey – http://galacticjourney.org/
Best Short Story
- Tuesdays With Molakesh The Destroyer – Megan Grey
- Today I am Paul – Martin L Shoemaker
- … And I Show You How Deep the Rabbit Hole Goes – Scott Alexander
- Asymmetrical Warfare – S R Algernon
- Cat Pictures, Please – Naomi Kritzer
- Damage – David Levine
- A Flat Effect – Eric Flint
- Daedelus – Niall Burke
- Hungry Daughters of Starving Mothers – Alyssa Wong
- I am Graalnak of the Vroon Empire, Destroyer of Galaxies, Supreme Overlord of the Planet Earth. Ask Me Anything – Laura Pearlman
Best Novelette
- And You Shall Know Her By The Trail Of Dead – Brooke Bolander
- Pure Attentions – T R Dillon
- Folding Beijing – Hao Jingfang translated by Ken Liu
- If I Had No Head and My Eyes Were Floating Way Up In the Air – Clifford D Simak
- Obits – Stephen King
- Our Lady of the Open Road – Sarah Pinsker
Best Novella
- Binti – Nnedi Okorafor
- Penric’s Demon – Lois McMaster Bujold
- Slow Bullets – Alastair Reynolds
- Perfect State – Brandon Sanderson
- The End of All Things 1: The Life of the Mind – John Scalzi
- Speak Easy – Catherynne M Valente
- The Builders – Daniel Polansky
Best Novel
- Somewhither – John C Wright
- Honor At Stake – Declan Finn
- The Cinder Spires: The Aeronaut’s Windlass – Jim Butcher
- Uprooted – Naomi Novik
- A Long Time Until Now – Michael Z Williamson
- Seveneves – Neal Stephenson
- Son of the Black Sword – Larry Correia
- Strands of Sorrow – John Ringo
- Nethereal – Brian Niemeier
- Ancillary Mercy – Ann Leckie
Nominating the entire Discworld series was also a top 10-ish contender, but I stuck to the actual novels for this listing.
Retro Hugos
- If This Goes On – Heinlein, for Best Novel
- Requiem – Heinlein, Best Short Story
- The Roads Must Roll – Heinlein, Best Short Story.
And that’s The List top 10-ish version.
Mad Genius Club 
179 responses to “The List”
Thank you for taking the time to do this Kate.
You’re welcome. I swear if I get conn… *ahem* talked into doing this again I’m building an application to take the suggestions. Going through the threads was painful.
I am excited as all get-out to have made the Top 10 of your (informal) list. Thank you very much for your efforts; you’ve made my night!
All right then. This faceless sad puppy minion will now do his duty and nominate as commanded. /Sarcasm
Thank you for all your hard work in soliciting and collating. It will be interesting to see not only what gets nominated but how many nominations there are for the entries. Something tells me there will be a LOT more people nominating this year
I certainly HOPE there’ll be a lot more people nominating this year. I’m impressed at how many suggestions I got despite my PR skills being somewhere in negative territory.
i really wouldn’t burn a nom on Larry because he will refuse it and that will burn nomination votes unnecessarily
Indeed, him and Ringo and probably Freer will decline for sure.
That’s quite likely, yes.
Sorry, I still don’t believe authors should have the right to decline a nomination for a fan award. Not bother to show up and accept the award, sure, but it really isn’t any of their business if fans think their publicly available work is worthy of an award or not.*
*If they don’t want to be nominated, they either shouldn’t publish, or just publish dreck
Along a similar vein, John Scalzi has previously withdrawn from awards consideration for his 2015 works.
As a preemptive strike against He Who Must Not Be Named, no doubt. Though I wonder what Tor thinks of him not bringing any awards or nominations their way now that he’s the $3 million dollar man . . .
That’s worth knowing, for those of us who haven’t nominated yet. Thank you.
I prefer voting without having to run through a checklist. Besides, if someone has stated that they will decline, I think they still deserve the opportunity to do so. Besides, it might make for amusing cover blurb material: “By the author who has declined Hugo nominations!”
> If I Had No Head and My Eyes Were Floating Way Up In the Air – Clifford D Simak
While that’s a catchy 21st-century title, I thought Simak died in 1988.
originally supposed to be published in the 70s in the “The Last Dangerous Visions ” anthology. Published in 2015.
Aaaand cue the wailing and gnashing of teeth in 3 . . . 2 . . . 1 . . .
I for one won’t be wailing or gnashing. It is a decent list of varied works compiled in a transparent manner that encouraged participation. Kate deserves praise for the way she organised it and the work she did.
We’ll see in the long run. This Hugo cycle is still young.
True and there are many other dimensions to this than just the SP4 list – but just on that narrow focus, Kate Paulk did a good thing IMHO.
Just to start off and see how this is going, I read “Tuesdays with Molakesh the Destroyer”. Good story. If the other Puppy nominees are anything like this, it’s going to be a great service to fandom.
I…damn, I’m actually smiling. I half (okay, more than half) expected you to be in the group that expressed the opinion (like the fellow who apparently runs Analog now) that if Kate dared to count up the number of suggestions in each category and rank them that way, her list was just as much a slate of evil, unethical, “pissing in the cereal” type badness as SP3! I am pleased to see how wrong I was in making that assumption. 🙂 I hope others will feel similarly, but it’s awesome to know at least one person sees a difference.
Definitely not the only one 🙂 This is a huge difference from SP3, entirely to the good. The difference is clear and very much appreciated.
I think maybe you meant Amazing? If Trevor at Analog has expressed an opinion, I missed it. And I would be very surprised.
Don Sakers, the book reviewer. I wrote ANALOG about that.
You’re probably correct. I meant the (lovely, pleasant) fellow who sent Kate the letter she responded to on the SP4 page. I couldn’t remember what magazine he edits but analog was the first name my tired brain could produce, heh. I was too tired to go to the SP4 page & double check. Oops.
I thought so. Just remember that Analog was the publisher of four of last year’s Sad Puppy recommendations, and also regularly publishes Brad’s work. (Full disclosure: and mine.) If Trevor has an opinion on the matter, it doesn’t appear to have affected his publishing habits.
The letter you mentioned was from Davidson at Amazing.
Oops. Come to think of it that’s probably why the name popped into my head when I was trying to recall Davidson’s pet magazine! Wow, that’s a little embarrassing… Thanks for your grace in pointing out my mistake. 🙂 Davidson is a real piece of work. Trevor, however, sounds like a very cool fellow. God bless!
Thank you. My goal all along has been to raise interest and participation in the Hugo awards process, with putting together an awesome reading list as a nice bonus.
If my job ever stops vacuuming up my life I may get to actually read most of these some day.
Cool. I’ll compare it with my own list later for verification’s sake.
Some quick notes (only what I noticed just now):
– FAN ARTIST: It’s spelled “Thibodeau” not Thibdeau. Also, here’s a link to his/her works: http://cryptid-creations.deviantart.com/gallery/?catpath=%2F&offset=72 (hover over an image to check date)
– FAN WRITER: Ralph Hayes Jr’s works have moved, they’re at http://archiveofourown.org/users/RHJunior/works
– SHORT DRAMATIC: “My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic” should have a specific episode listed (The Cutie Mark parts 1&2).
It’s not “Kung Fury: Laser Unicorns”, just “Kung Fury”, Laser Unicorns is the studio name
– GRAPHIC STORY: ‘Totem’ is “Gunnerkrigg Court”‘s 50th chapter, not 15th.
– NOVELETTE: Simak’s story doesn’t have an “if” in the title.
I’ll probably also list my own recommendations for Retro Hugos since that doesn’t seem to have gotten much love.
Thank you for the corrections – I was going cross-eyed with a lot of these. And, as I said, the typos are all mine.
I won’t be able to get corrections up until next weekend – I’m at Lunacon this weekend – so people will just have to live with things as they are.
What’s really pathetic is of the Campbell nominees, only two have shown up in the local bookstores – The Martian and The Library at Mount Char. Of the novels – 7 of the ten, and those are all by very well established or famous-because-of-awards authors. (B&N had one copy of Ancillary Mercy on the shelf for two weeks, then it was either bought and not replaced or pulled. Just like happened with Three Body Problem after it got the award.) So there are a lot of books that people are reading and enjoying that never hit the shelves of the major and major-minor chains.
On that, though, is that because it is growing easier to get them thru electronic formats/
That’s why I’m not sweating the lack of book store availability 😉
Around here, I’ve also seen Saturn Run, the Watchmaker of Filigree Street and The Long Way to a Small Angry Planet in bookstores, and the Ancillary books consistently (I saw the Dark Forest this time but not the Three-Body Problem). Maybe it’s location luck.
Possible. We get some . . . odd titles that pop up and then disappear. And titles you’d think would do well out here never show up at all. *shrug*
I’ve seen copies of Watchmaker in multiple branches of the NYPL.
[…] Let’s take a look right quick: […]
Saturn Run has shown up in the bookstores around here. That one’s an interesting case – its hardly Sandford’s first novel, but it is his first true SF novel, and Ctein’s well known in certain circles but again it is his first SF novel.
And I just managed to read Skin Game last week. Behind on reading eligible stuff.
I hadn’t thought of nominating the whole of iZombie as long form. Good idea.
Are there going to be ‘Here is where to find/buy them’ posts for the entries in the various categories?
Google? 😉
That’s what I’ve been doing. That and the library.
For the retro related works, check your local library’s WWII history section. If that isn’t good enough, go to your nearest university library.
Okay, I compared the list to my own efforts — and here are the disrepancies I noticed, other than what I already mentioned in my other comment.
There are a LOT of disrepancies in the number of votes… a lot of this was probably due to my more conservative standards whether or not to count a comment as a vote… but to be frank, I also spot a lot of blatant miscountings. Still, I won’t nitpick about the exact number of votes (we’d be here all day) — except when it affects a work’s presence/absence on The List. I also don’t nitpick about spelling of titles, only people’s names.
BEST NOVEL:
“Ancillary Mercy”, as far as I can tell, only has 7 votes, not 9 (from the users: Snowcrash, Robmatic, Nathaniel Harada, Joe Sherry, Hypnotosov, Nota Bene, Gary D). So it shouldn’t be on The List. Either “Fifth Season” or “The Just City” (both with 8 votes) should take its place.
BEST NOVELLA:
“The Children of Gal” by Allen Steele (one vote by Gary C) is missing from the spreadsheet.
BEST RELATED WORK:
I think that the satirical “conflict” entries should be marked accordingly, or moved to the section “SATIRICAL Entries” clearly prepared for them at the bottom of the sheet yet not populated.
BEST GRAPHIC STORY:
“The Sculptor” has been erroneously inserted into the spreadsheet as two different entries. It has 3 votes in total, therefore it should get onto The List.
BEST DRAMATIC – LONG:
There’s no such thing as “Witcher 3: Projekt Red”. CD Projekt RED is simply the developer of “Witcher 3: Wild Hunt”, so that vote counts as Witcher 3’s.
BEST DRAMATIC – SHORT:
As far as I can tell Daredevil E13 got only one vote (from Bojojoti), so it doesn’t get on The List – meanwhile, “Gravity Falls – Not What He Seems” got two votes (from Detroyes and Anthony M), not one, so it should take Daredevil’s place on The List.
“Jessica Jones – AKA Smile” is missing from the spreadsheet, despite having received a vote from Anthony M.
BEST FANZINE:
The entry reading “Declan Finn” should read “A Pius Geek”, the name of his blog (and the link http://apiusman.blogspot.com/ should be added)
BEST FANCAST:
“God and Comics” (one vote by Will) is missing from the spreadsheet.
BEST FAN WRITER:
It’s “Mark Oshiro”, not “Marc Oshiro”.
BEST PRO ARTIST:
Milan Jaram’s link should just say http://www.milanjaram.com (where his 2015 work is). The Bastion covers are all from 2014.
Blanco’s second name is Orsi, not Ordi.
BEST FAN ARTIST:
You’ve mistyped Matthew Callahan’s name as “Michael Callahan” in The List.
CAMPBELL:
Charlie Holmberg only has received one vote (from J), so he shouldn’t be on The List.
Thanks for the detailed checking – I should have asked you for this before now! As I said upthread I won’t be able to get corrections in until next weekend, so it’s going to have to stand for now.
c4c
Hey – where is all the racism and misogyny ? And Nazis – I was definitely promised Nazis.
Check the retro related works. Kung Fury has Nazis. Howard Tayler thinks Hispanics, Italians and Irish are not human. The 1 to 2 female male ninja ratio in Naruto has been cited as evidence of misogyny. K. Paulk, notorious misogynist, has been repeatedly denounced for notorious misogyny.
Well, yes. I’m a gay white Mormon man with a great rack, donchaknow?
Let’s see. Nazis – check. Racists – heck. Misogynists – check. Ok, now what about the transphobia and Islamophobia ? This bus ain’t leaving unless all the baggage is loaded.
Islamophobic because the rules disqualify the Mufti of Jerusalem’s participation in the Holocaust, as I only thought to do that now, after the deadline for submission.
I’d joke about transphobia and Stand Still, Stay Silent, except I’m comedically bankrupt, and worried about hurting feelings.
Rocket Stack Rank has an annotated version of the Sad and Rabid Puppies lists for the short fiction categories with links to the stories, magazines, and reviews.
http://www.rocketstackrank.com/2016/03/2015-torcom-puppies-ratings.html
Thanks for the info – I’ll try to get updates after I recover from Lunacon
Graphic Story was another of those categories with a huge tie for second place.
I am unable to download the spreadsheet, or to read the whole entry of B20-B24 on the Retros sheet in my browser.
I set it to no-download so that it would be the reference copy in case I needed to make updates – which, given my typo-fu and assorted other glitches (thanks judgedeadd) I will definitely need to make.
I’m not sure why you can’t expand the view though… that should be possible even for read-only.
Suggestion: If updates change the vote counts (rather than just fix typos in names and titles), keep the old version available so that there is a public record of exactly what changed.
I think you transposed number 1 and number 2 in the best novelette category
Bella
Reblogged this on Be Swift, Be Precise and commented:
More thoughts on this one later — expect to write variations on this theme — but putting it up here now as reference for future comment….
It should also be noted that “The Roads Must Roll” is easily way over the Short Story category’s wordcount limit — it’s a Novelette.
Did I miss that one or wasn’t it commented as being way over? I know I moved several pieces that got comments about being too long for the category they were listed with.
I’m certain that the presence of works from Castalia House on the list will provoke howls of outrage and conspiracy theories about secret collaboration with You Know Who. Hell, they’ve never stopped claiming that.
I’m giggling at the notion that Sarah, Kate or Amanda would be taking orders from anyone. Have they actually met these ladies?
I’ve only encountered them online, and I sure can’t imagine them taking orders. But the anti-Puppy faction is delusional, even if they had met them, they’d simply discard any evidence that contradicts their prejudices.
Sarah takes orders from Dan. .
I do suspect nobody cared enough to give such orders anyway. There were certain suggestions that would have offended the worldcon logrollers. Very few sockpuppet votes would have been needed to get those onto the short list. I do not see those votes.
Of course, I’m really a spam bot so deeply closeted that I do not realize it.
In fairness, Sarah is married to Dan; and anyone else giving her orders would be told, essentially, to piss off.
Yeah. Those are her middle fingers.
You seem investing in there being howls…
I can take it to the bank.
According to your raw data, Pure Attentions should be listed first in the Best Novelette category.
If you ‘re trying to find links to the short-fiction entries, Rocket Stack Rank has a page with links, reviews, and other stuff.
http://www.rocketstackrank.com/2016/03/2015-torcom-puppies-ratings.html
RSR has annotated pages for other lists (like Locus and the Nebula nominees) but this page is for everything that came in after the Hugo nominations started.
Thank you. Once Lunacon is over (I’ll be packing and heading off soon) I’ll dig that up and make updates.
Thanks so much! That really helped.
If I’d seconded myself, would I have backed into the 10th place fanwriter tie with 3 votes? 😀
(It’s cool, I’ll be angling for Best Semi-Pro zine next go around instead anyway)
Quite a few people listed themselves – and more than a few are worthy. You wouldn’t have been lonely there.
I will continue backing ALL of Haven, not just the weird two-seasons-they-insist-were-really-one.
Hmmm, that reminds me, I need to finish watching the final-final season…
Commentary from the Peanut Gallery is not too bad so far. There are some backhanded “compliments” where they rehash the same tired accusations against SP3 “Brad’s private slate, etc” but so far not overly negative.
But the stuff really didn’t hit the fan last year until the final ballot was announced. So watch out.
Some backhanded praise from Twitter:
“Eric Franklin @gamethyme
Breaking #HugoAwards news: Sad Puppies IV does not appear to be complete shit this year.”
Take that as you will.
Oh, I’m immensely flattered! Apparently people didn’t think I’d do what I said I would.
You mean you’re not the caricature they created to smear you? Egads, what a concept. 😉
Though as noted above it depends on how well SP4 does. If SP doesn’t get any noms I’m sure the Usual Suspects will be all (faux) noble and magnanimous about how the process works and so on.
If SP gets a few or even somehow manages to sweep again, meaning SP’s patented cat-herding “if you like it, vote for it” technique beat their organized clique, they’ll probably freak again and start screeching.
Since that is what happened the last few times. They freaked when SP2 got a few noms and they freaked harder when SP3 got even more.
I’ll take a look at your list. 2015 wasn’t a good time for me so that will limit my choices since I didn’t get out or read many new books. I’ll consider some of the suggestions and throw in a few of my own.
Well the problem is that she didn’t act like Straw Kate and now they are confused.
*raises hand* Question/seeking clarification: for those works which were published on blogs, which would go under ‘publisher’?
The Story of Moira Greyland was HUGE, and I am openly torn between it and Safe Space As Rape Room (which is Castalia House-site published.)
If we are to consider the blog as the publisher, would The Story of Moira Greyland be under asktheBigot? Similarly, as an example, would Sad Puppies Bite Back go under ‘A Pius Geek’?
Thanks
I’d have to defer that to those more knowledgeable about the rules than me.
As I recall from questions about . . . ah, I think it was “Queen of the Tyrant Lizards.” One of John C. Wright’s short stories was ruled ineligible last year by publication date. If the complete story appears on a blog, that is the date of publication, and thus the date for Hugo qualification. So stories run on blogs count as “published” works.
I’m no expert, but I put Moira’s under Ask the Bigot on my ballot. I nominated both. If both make it, I’d have no idea how to rank them. It was interesting, though, to see Moira show up at CH, thank Daniel and offer to answer any questions anyone had there.
Sigh. I was going to sit this one out completely, seeing as I can’t vote this year (my little bit of “mad money” this year really has to go somewhere else).
But absolutely have to now, if only for the retros…
Um. Sorry?
Thanks for the time and effort! Now I need to go start reading the ones I didn’t get to!
Thank you! I have the same issue, myself.
Still no manga or anime. Well, maybe next year.
Naruto got the same number of votes as titles that made the short list. Assuming you weren’t the other guy, if you had shown up and chimed in, it would have made the short list.
On the long list there are five or six manga for graphic, two anime and an anime based video for long form dramatic. If you have registered, there is nothing at all stopping you from nominating those, or whatever else you please.
I hadn’t had the time to really participate in the puppies site, so I went ahead and nominated the graphic novels/manga I wanted. SAO Progressive, UQ Holder, Black Butler, etc.
By the way, has anyone else noticed / experienced that their nominations’ order gets shuffled after hitting ‘submit’?
Does Gate qualify?
(Found some subs on Crunchyroll and I blame you for getting me hooked.) 😉
The anime, certainly.
Gate doesn’t qualify because it’s not yet out by an official English translator (as opposed to fan-translations.) Neither novel, manga OR the anime qualify by the rules as I understand them.
*grin* I’ll cheerfully accept the blame. I’m looking forward to my Rory Mercury figure from Kotobukiya.
Huh. I just realized, does Crunchyroll count as an official releaser? If so, then yes, Gate the anime qualifies. First season anyway.
Also, regarding the shuffling, this is the reply I got:
First, you do not need to hit save after every section. Each time you hit save, your entire ballot is saved. The save button is repeated next to every section so that people that nominate in only a few sections can easily hit save.
Second, nominations are equally rated and unranked, the order they appear on your ballot is meaningless. Sometimes the order on your ballot is changed on redisplay due to IDs for your selections inside the database. This will not affect your nominations in any way, everything you nominate will be recorded and tallied appropriately.
Hopefully these answers have been helpful, let me know if anything is still unclear.
That’ll be funny, because to humor Aff, I nominated Kung Fury as my last pick in the shorts, thinking it was ranked in order of entry, and because I had a space free. Oops. (What? Humor-related sci-fi-fantasyish stuff like that count.)
I voted for a few, but not Naruto. I’m not really a fan of that.
No worries. I was wishing we’d had one more vote for Naruto just then. Even if my ‘whole series, Wheel of Time rule’ vote got filed under the Vol. 72 vote, instead of the other way around. 🙂
There were a lot of manga and anime in the full list – but it’s kind of like herding kittens around here. Those were insanely spread categories with a lot of suggestions and not a huge amount of overlap.
In Best Dramatic Presentation – Short Form, some people at File 770 were questioning the idea of cutting off the list alphabetically rather than keeping all the suggestions that were tied. I agree with them; when you get a chance to update the list, I recommend adding the remainder of the tied entries at the end of that category.
Honestly, the alphabetical was more an artifact of the sorting algorithm than anything else. When I revise, I’ll consider that – it depends on how ridiculously long it makes the category.
My main concern is fixing the typos and mistakes that crept in because “Kate is human and mistakes happen”.
Looks like someone is unclear on the concept of an open nomination process:
“Laura Resnick on March 17, 2016 at 7:22 pm said:
The Puppies put Ann Leckie’s third Ancillary novel on their this-is-not-a-slate?
That’s pretty funny, given Puppy rantings about her first Ancillary novel.
I see they’ve put Scalzi on their list, too. That’s hilarious, given Puppy rantings about Scalzi and RED SHIRTS last year.
I’m disappointed they didn’t nominate something by Rachel Swirsky, too. That would have made this not-a-slate a hat trick! Darn the luck.”
And, inevitably, Steve Davidson:
“Steve davidson on March 18, 2016 at 5:10 am said:
Not buying it.
There’s still a politcal agenda behind the ‘not-a-slate’ list.
There’s still a good possibility that what is public is not what’s going on in private.
Kudos to Cat valente for not playing – I wish more authors would do the same.
A “recommendation list” is a list, not curated with most recommended. you let the person using the list make that determination.
Finally, the real issue was never about the formats or the methodology of putting a list/slate together – it was the entire concept that Worldcon and the Hugo awards ought to become a battlefield in the mundane culture war. SPIV Still represents that and it should Still be firmly rejected on that basis alone.
I get that people are weary of the whole thing and are looking for any means to start feeling like this is over and that we can get back to business as usual, but it’s not over at least until everyone participating in worldcon and the Hugo’s understands WHY this kind of thing isn’t done and either goes there own way or stops trying to turn the sandbox into a battlefield. EPH isn’t the solution either, that’s just a band aid.
Yes, many will feel I’m just stirring the pot or unwilling to let go. But we still have to address the fact that we’re not sufficiently or effectively transmitting to a new generation the why’s and wherefores of what it means to be a fan. It starts with addressing the undeserved sense of entitlement, goes on to those feelings of persecution and rejection and descends from there. If we don’t deal with this root issue,there will be future eructions of similar and unknown kinds we’ll be dealing with.”
So, we’re fanning wrong, as usual. You’ll notice he doesn’t say it to our faces, despite his “let’s-be-friends” act of a few months past,
Well, gee. Pardon me for wanting to increase interest and participation in the Hugo award process (yes, that’s sarcasm). Apparently someone is unhappy that I did what I said I’d do and didn’t bow to his “superior” wisdom (in his own mind).
If it’s “political” to want more people involved and caring about the Hugo Awards, then count me guilty.
Oh, it’s “political” (to them) alright: Your attempt to involve more people dilutes their influence and their power over the Hugo process. That’s a threat to them.
I’m weeping on the inside for them. Really. 😉
Honestly, at this point, letting Worldcon be an increasingly insignificant backwater of fandom has its appeal as the Frozen Chosen won’t consider the necessary steps to make themselves relevant to a fan culture that’s changed significantly with the rise of geekdom and the internet. However, too many “pros” are vested in Worlcon to leave it to rot.
I wonder how he maintains the necessary energy level for all that goalpost-moving.
…Wait, so they’re mad that some of the folks from THEIR side decided to take Kate’s invitation at face value, and actually put forth their suggestions? I kinda remember people like snowcrash making suggestions, but it’s been a while since I looked at the site, so I could be wrong.
Then are pissed off that Kate took those suggestions, tallied them, and there were enough nom votes to make the list?
Sorry, but Davidson (and Valente, too for that matter) can suck my hairy ********. Honestly, their opinions mean less to me than organic fertilizer coming out of the bovine
…are you sure you want them to? I mean, you don’t know where they’ve been. O_o;;
THAT’S the jack*ss I was referring to! Am I mistaken, or isn’t he the “editor” of (what little remains of) a formerly prestigious sci-fi magazine? Either way he’s a class – unmitigated *sshole, with less intellectual integrity than a particularly dishonest, exceptionally unintelligent, rabid badger! A sanctimonious, self-absorbed, narcissistic, sociopathic invertebrate with an grotesquely inflated sense of self importance! …there. I feel better now.
Class-A, damn it! Not “Class-“
Heh! I said at the start I didn’t care what made the top 10-ish and I meant it. This isn’t my preferences, it’s what y’all suggested should be there.
Laura could have put her $0.05 (adjusted for inflation) in if she’d wanted.
I didn’t know that they accounted for the degree to which a person’s ego was inflated when calculating the value of their thoughts! If that’s the case, I have to say, you are far more generous than I would be…I’d consider Mz. Resnick’s theoretical contribution to any hypothetical discussion so devalued by her immense ego that it would come closer to $0.0005 in that case. 😀
And we already have an author throwing a fit about consent and contacting authors on the list…
Wha-at?
Who did that?
I guess I won’t be recommending any authors, since to get on my Good List, I’d need their consent first. /sarcasm
Cat Valente. I only hope she does the due-diligence of seeking Kate out instead of letting the File770 gang make her opinion for her.
Dear Mr. Hitler,
I am writing to request permission that I may suggest others nominate your invasion of France as performance art in the related works category of the 1940 retro-Hugos.
I trust you will not find association with the world science fiction society very harmful to your reputation.
Most sincerely yours,
A random American lunatic
Yes, I do have notarized letters of permission for every work I suggested. I just cannot share them because they include my full legal name. I have to keep that confidential to maintain the security essential to the success of my big project. (I have letters of Marque and Reprisal for the purpose of stabilizing the southern border, and persecuting the War on Drugs.)
I didnt need her permission to read her, but I need it to nominate her?
Wtf is the color of the sky in her world?
Brown.
In lieu of committing the same error of knee-jerk reactionism, it may be worthwhile to read Valente’s subsequent blogpost, where she does apologise for her initial reaction, and lays out her concerns.
Unless I’m confusing her with another, and I may have, we’ve had her here before and know something of her, as we know something of you.
Wait, she wasn’t upset that she was nominated, but the wrong people nominated her?
Who exactly is supposed to be the group of intolerance, hate and rejection in this argument?
Quod erat demonstrandum.
But they’ll still claim it’s us anyway.
She could have quietly contacted Kate instead of throwing a tantrum.
She could not have done that, because the list curator’s awareness was almost certainly not her main goal. I’d wager that her goal was signaling, and you don’t do that by handling things in a private, cordial manner.
Of course not. That would require having grace and restraint, which tantrum throwing does not.
Props on the follow-through here, Kate.
Thank you Kate!!
[…] https://madgeniusclub.com/2016/03/17/the-list/ […]
[…] https://madgeniusclub.com/2016/03/17/the-list/ […]
From 770:
“NickPheas on March 18, 2016 at 7:32 am said:
I don’t recall whether or not SP4 said it would, like the Rabids, refuse to take anyone off their this-is-not-a-slate who asks
I remember Kate the Impala being quoted as saying “we like who we like and we don’t have to ask permission for liking them”. Or something like that. I’m really not searching through the pit of madness to find her exact words.”
Impalas are swift, graceful creatures, don’t you think, Kate? 😉
If you explained it’s supposed to be “Impaler” would Nicky faint from sheer terror?
I think they’re trying to be insulting.
Trying.
Oh. So we shouldn’t laugh since they’re trying so hard?
Nah, go ahead and laugh and point. They are being pathetic. Particularly the wailing and insisting they don’t want to be on the reading list for the Hugo’s.
[…] night I was made aware of two things: that the Sad Puppy 4 Recommendation List has been released and that I am on it, for my novella Speak […]
Dear Kate
I’d appreciate it if my novella could be removed from this list.
kind regards,
Alastair
I made nominations today. First time nominating for a Hugo. I appreciate the compiling of the list. I read one good book as a result (Uprooted). Everything else I nominated I had already read on my own.
I did not nominate very many items. I tend to reread things or read things from other years. I’m not going to nominate something I have not experienced myself.
I really appreciate the retro-hugo nods. I’d read all three Heinlein works previously. I especially like The Roads Must Roll.
Absolutely will not go to WorldCon. Kansas City is a fun town. Best BBQ (Arthur Bryants & Gates) in the USA. The WW1 Museum is also excellent. Best place to get a steak in the USA. But reading online what many of the WorldCon regulars say – why would I want to pay money to associate with jerks? Next time I go to Kansas City it will be in cooler weather when the Royals have a home stand.
Instead, I’m going to GenCon this year. I’m also going to a regional Pinball convention that is always a blast.
Depending on what is in the reading package, I may purchase a supporting membership again. I enjoyed reading the short fiction of all lengths last year. Goblin Emperor was also well worth it.
Again, thanks for providing the Hugo Forum. You did exactly what you said you would do. Reading the reactions from the TrueFen upon seeing what you an Kate did is a guilty pleasure. Based on Scalzi’s reaction – he must think the world revolves around him. I participated in the nominations on SP4 and if I could nominate something, anyone could.
A special thanks to those who suggested The Witcher 3. I did not care for that game, but it made me think of Fallout 4 which I enjoyed immensely and nominated for Long Form.
And the Guardian’s Village Idiot:
“Damien Walter @damiengwalter · 20h20 hours ago
Kate Paulk better have deep pockets, strong case for damages for the writers included in SP4 without permission.”
Ladies and gentlemen, the stupidest thing said about Sad Puppies 4. So far.
because Damien the government-sponsored novelist doesn’t understand how nominating someone for an award works.
I would LOVE to see this in court, if only to see the expression on the judge’s face.
If you read the extensive Sad Puppies Four boiler plate, you’ll see that any civil suits against Sad Puppies can only be heard by Kathleen Kane. So you’ll be out of luck unless they give her back her law license.
Yeah.
“We put together a list of works that we felt, as a group, through popular vote of voluntary participants, were wonderful enough to think of suggesting of nominating for a literary award.”
Mr. Walter learned everything he knows about the United States of America from Donald Trump.
Hey Damien,
Your law degree from Trump University isn’t recognized by the Bar.
Damien is doing his Donald Trump impression.
Yep… and when I included his ID in my commentary on his tweet he got all shrill.
http://archive.is/n2chY
(Hey, I am SAD PUPPIES!!! No work needed, just comment on a rather stupid tweet and *presto* I become it!)
http://archive.is/cZ72k
(I did send a last message pointing out the block button since my impure thoughts disturb him so. So far he hasn’t.)
Isn’t the Guardian more of a village full of idiots?
(I posted two links in a comment so it’s stuck in moderation. My bad.)
Thank you, everyone, whose recommendations put me on the (informal) Top 10! I never expected to make it this far, and I am deeply honored. I look forward to seeing you at the Journey!
http://www.galacticjourney.org
Hello
I tried to leave a comment here last night asking for my novella to be removed from the list, but I don’t see any sign of it this morning. I’d appreciate it if my story could be removed.
kind regards,
Alastair
Alastair,
I will not insult those who consider your novella to be Hugo-worthy by removing you from the List. I will, however, be updating the version of this post at http://sadpuppies4.org/the-list/ to note that you prefer that your work not be purchased, enjoyed, and nominated without your prior approval.
Hello Kate. You’re welcome to do that, of course, but it does not represent my position. Nonetheless thank you for publishing my comment and I wish you all the best.
Did you ever consider, Kate, that such blatantly dishonest misrepresentation of Reynold’s actual position might be one indication of why the Sad Puppies are widely regarded as a joke?
You couldn’t simply leave a note pointing at his actual statement – http://approachingpavonis.blogspot.co.nz/2016/03/slow-bullets-and-sad-puppies.html – instead, you have to lie about what he said.
Pathetic.
Oh, so Mr. Reynolds posted a link to that post, did he? So Kate could know it existed? Because if he didn’t (he didn’t) Kate has no reason to even know it *existed* and as such was perfectly justified in inferring from his barebones “please remove me from this list” that he was just A: another *ss hole like you and yours, or B: didn’t bother to actually research the issue and was basing his distaste for the recommendation off of the *word* of *ssholes like you and yours. Because thus far that has been the pattern, IMO. Had Mr. Reynolds posted a link, or even mentioned the existence of such a post, the situation might be different. As it is, it is you who looks like a pathetic fool…but that’s just business as usual for you, so it’s no big deal. Good day. 😀
as such was perfectly justified in inferring from his barebones “please remove me from this list”
Uh-huh.
Reynold’s statement : At this point it’s of no concern to me whether this is a slate or a set of recommendations. Given the taint left by last year’s antics, I don’t care for any work of mine to be associated with any list curated by the Sad Puppies.
Paulk’s “inference” : you prefer that your work not be purchased, enjoyed, and nominated without your prior approval.
Pathetic, the lot of you.
How slow *are* you? He made that statement *on his blog*. He didn’t bother to link to the statement, or even mention its existence. It’s not our, or Kate’s, job to search out the personal blogs of the authors whose fans voted them onto this list. If those authors have a problem with their fans voting them onto this list, they should tell those fans. All Kate is doing is collecting the results of the voting. I don’t know if you know Camestros Felapton or not, but he(?) has at least demonstrated that he has the brains necessary to find his way out of a cardboard box without aid. 😛 (at Camestros Felapton) In light of the observation that you lack even the intellectual capacity to perform that feat of mental agility -indeed, I am amazed that you have not yet succumbed to asphyxia as a consequence of forgetting to breathe- perhaps you might ask him for help in grasping my point. Either way, as you have repeatedly demonstrated that you have neither the desire nor the capacity to add anything positive to the conversation, please go away.
I only became aware of your story through this recommendation List, and thought it good enough to nominate for an award. As you seem to find this association objectionable and offensive, as you have requested, I have removed your story from my list of nominations. I hope that suffices, as Kate was quite correct in her reply.
Further as you find association with such as myself odious and do not like that Sad Puppies like myself enjoy your works enough to nominate them, I shan’t offend you further by paying you money from my offensive little non-white, female*, Sad Puppy hands.
Have a nice day or evening.
*This needed saying, as we have collectively been slandered in media as racist, bigoted, old white men, and as Neo Nazis.
Alaistair Reynolds appears to have a comment that may have been caught in your spam filter.
http://approachingpavonis.blogspot.com/2016/03/slow-bullets-and-sad-puppies.html
It is quite possible a lot of folks are caught in the spam filter for this thread. The Morman Anglo-Saxon Triumvirate behind Sad Puppies are all fairly busy right now, and I’m not sure if the other MGC contributors would want to get stuck into it.
I’d love to see him try to contact Vox for that. He also recommended the story.
Puppies: “Hey, this is a nifty story, let’s nominate it for a Hugo!”
Puppy-Kickers: “YOU FIENDS!1!!”
Me: *blink* …wat?
[…] would be gracious and thank the readers for the honor. One would think that being included in a list of recommendations that this year includes such great and diverse writers as Lois McMaster Bujold, Ann Leckie, Stephen […]
Reblogged this on The Arts Mechanical and commented:
Here’s the Sad Puppy List for this year. Good reading.
[…] a certain author is having kittens over the fact her work ended up on the Sad Puppies IV list. How much of a delusional narcissist are you that you don’t want the wrong people liking what […]
just want to say thanks to Kate for being a target but still agreeing to do this. It is great to see so many suggestions.
I do want to say one thing to the other side (Laura Resnick in particular). This recommendation list has been up in one form or another since early January I think. Correct me if I’m wrong. You have not been given 2 weeks to read the list: it has been on the net for everyone to check out since then.
Suppose someone came to want nothing to do with Sad Puppies last year or earlier. What were their options?
The useless option would have been not publishing last year. There were at least three ways a person could have made a request to not be considered prior to last Thursday. 1. Speaking to Kate, Amanda or Sarah before the website was created. As can be seen from Correia, Freer (IIRC), and Ringo (IIRC), this does not keep people off the list. 2. Knowing which categories one qualifies for, post in each thread a request not to be considered. Some folks would have seen that and cooperated. There weren’t really a lot of voters acting from malice, so that might’ve been enough to keep someone from getting very high on the ranking. 3. Post an announcement on social media requesting that no one suggest, nominate or vote one’s works for Hugo. It isn’t clear that many of our voters would have thought to check for such warnings prior to voting.
The threads were open for some time prior to the list being generated. I want to say November or December, but I haven’t even bothered to check. The votes were quite visible.
Maybe the prior restraint options aren’t perfect. Many of those currently objecting do not seem to have used them.
This suggests that their deeply rooted distaste for Sad Puppies came about after Thursday. It is possible that Puppies first came to their attention after results were announced and people in publishing brought it to their attention.
Alternate option, requiring no posting anywhere:
I’d hate to have Sad Puppies associated with vile white nationalists like Jemisin, Martin and Scalzi, who support white supremacist policies and politicians, simply because there are people who think their works are worth reading.
Remember, in their world “I think an author’s work is award-worthy”=”I think the author’s politics are the bomb-diggity.”
There you go.
Besides, is it fair or realistic to expect Kate to go figure out whether someone who recommended a given author is an actual Sad Puppy or somebody who took her at her word & wandered over here from 770 to vote or somebody who liked some sci-fi and doesn’t know or care about the voting controversies?
it’s unfair and unrealistic because there were 770-ers who came and, well, perhaps testing to see if Kate was on the level, put forth suggestions to see if they would be compiled.
Or maybe they took Kate at face value, and joined in.
Either way, Kate was as good as her word, and now they’re screaming because she did exactly as she said she would and now ‘their side’ authors are howling because ‘tainted association.’
Since when is “I like this book” = “Author associated and participating with group”?
Larry’s refusing all Hugo nominations, which is a shame since Son of The Black Sword was awesome. But that really doesn’t stop people from recommending him, and honestly, he has more grace than to tell them to not like his books, and is more likely to tell them something like “I’m glad you like my stuff that much, but I’m not going to accept a Hugo; nominate someone else who’s also awesome; I’m sure there are authors who write fantastic works besides my own.”
Because, well, Larry’s much more honest.
[…] I’d like to start by congratulating Kate Paulk on her magnificent effort in organizing and collating the SAD PUPPIES 4 LIST. […]
[…] the Puppies have since released the final version of said list—and the controversy that has subsequently emerged suggests those hopes might have been too […]
[…] the Sad Puppies and the Rabid Puppies have released their recommendation lists for the year… and I feature […]
[…] K. Paulk put up the SP4 reading list/recommendations at MGC, with the entire list HERE. […]