I’ve driven a few highway intersections like that. An AI designer would explain a lot.
In other news my interwoven three or four series are an even worse tangle.
I tried, I really did, to write sequentially. The Muse seems to have lost the concept.
And I need to straighten things out. Not sure if Amazon will even let me renumber things, let alone shuffle the series . . . Only one way to find out . . . and while I’m at it I really ought to update the back matter and about half the covers of the old series . . .
It’s all well and good to have fun writing, and the challenge to edit and polish has been met and enjoyed.
Maybe if I just start with the worst . . . I will learn to like being businesslike.
I could have The Troystvennyy Soyuz: Before, During, and After the Fall . . . Maybe split out the Inspector Smirnov Mysteries . . .
What do you readers want? I’ve got eleven numbered books, a prequel, and the newest will make three associated novels/novellas with five more possible, no, seven, no . . .
I could just renumber them in rough internal chronological order.
Or split them into smaller series by Main Characters (more or less because they all walk in and out of each others’ books) and a collection of all the shorter stuff with unique characters.
Yesterday I surrendered and just pushed the button to add this one to the Unnumbered Associated Club . . .
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CFYRGKRP
Mad Genius Club 
23 responses to “Lost in the Series by Pam Uphoff”
I ignore the numbers and do publication order for my re-reads. It just flows better that way.
I’m a gotta-know-the-sequence sort of gal. I really really don’t like reading out of (invented world) sequence, and in a world where there are spunoff-but-still-integrated series (as opposed to spinoffs which just go off on their own) it takes a hell of an author to overcome my desire for order.
I’ve made a (gritted teeth) exception for the Liaden books. I have an easier time with the Nathan Lowell ones. And I have many of yours, too, but not as many as I would if I were clearer about sequence etc. (Nothing to do with your ability to tell a story, just the confusion about how they cluster together in sequence.)
Clarity can help a lot — if I know that this book is #3 in this series and that book is the start of a new series in the same world, well then (for an author I like) I will buy but not read (yet) the accumulating books in one of the series until they are complete (or at least well along). If they don’t share characters but occupy the same universe, it’s less of an issue (e.g., Nathan Lowell and his bloody whelkies), but it’s the lives of the characters and how they fit in together that is important to me.
It’s partly a memory issue — I can’t recall a book I read once 2 years ago by author X well enough for the next book to feel like a series entry especially if there are other books in a related series floating around for me to get confused by. For one series in that world – I can manage, and once there are a few books, then it’s not so much of an issue. But when there are multiple spinoffs in that world, the confusion defeats my memory.
I don’t mind waiting (much 🙂 ). A series doesn’t have to be finished for me to start buying it, or even to start reading it. But I need a map in some form of what exists in an inter-twined set of series in one world, whether it’s in the form of numbered entries or an overview description or subseries identities – whatever.
Agreed, and I’ve gotten sloppier the last few. I’m just not sure of the best way to organize it.
Sometimes, no matter what the writer does, it’s Amazon. Nathan Lowell as a current example – I read the entire final arc for Ishmael, and only then realized that I should have started with Quarter Share. (I’m back up to Full Share as of now.)
Would it help to do omnibuses/collections of sub-arcs/timeframes?
That would reduce the sheer number of books, but the size of some of them don’t scare off potential readers.
I don’t have a problem with sheer numbers or sizes or variety of formats/lengths. All I want is a chart or a list which I can use as a reading-order guide. Think of it as a variant of an “Also By” page that summarizes the sets/subdivisions the way you think of them (holes and all, if necessary).
That way, even an incomplete subset (with holes) at least gives the reader guidance for reading order within each subset.
It could be a link to an area of your website on your Amazon (or other vendor) page, it could be an internal website link or page visible in the reading sample (like an AlsoBy page), it could be a free Kindle Unlimited book for recommended reading order, etc. The first step is something you can present on your website — all else would follow from there (and send me a copy, too, please… 🙂 ).
I’ve got that in the back of every book, all linked to Amazon (and need to update in the early books!) Hmm, I’ll bet word Press would freak if i tried to post it here. Only one way to know . . . .
Well, it stripped out the links, but here it is, in order.
Other Titles by Pam Uphoff
Wine of the Gods Series:
Outcasts and Gods
Exiles and Gods (Three Novellas)
The Black Goats
Explorers
Spy Wars
One Alone
Comet Fall
A Taste of Wine (Seven Tales)
Dark Lady
Growing Up Magic (Four Novellas)
Young Warriors
God of Assassins
Heirs of Crown and Spear
The Fiend
Empire of the One
Warriors of the One
Dancer
Earth Gate
Mages at Large
Triplets
Sea Wolves
Bad Karma
Dark Side of the Moon
Cascades
Olympian
Embassy
Rael
On the Run
God of the Sun
Cannibal World
No Confidence
Pure Poison
Flying
Last Merge
Nowhere Man
Black Point Clan
External Relations
Meet the Family
Children of a Foreign God
Lucky Dave
A Prophetable Dimension
Tales From the Multiverse
Guardsman
Lost and Found
Kaat
Marooned
Professor of Magic
Moles
Cyborgs
Freshmen
Mall Santa
Saturday Night
War Party
Warrior at Large
Cool as Ice
Exzy
The Maze of Worlds
Destroyer
Destiny
The Directorate Series:
Directorate School
A Tale of Three Interns
Trouble in Paradise
First Posting
Surveillance
Fort Dinosaur
Shadow Zone
Project Dystopia
Fractured Loyalties
Cooking Hot
The Boy
One Love
A Warrior’s Art
Scrambled
The Fall of the Alliance Series:
Home World
Code Name Igor
Agent of the 300
Murder by the Light of the Fireworks
Murder at Kozlov House
Bad Tölz
Murder in the Rigel Brigade
Wheeler Dealer
Fall of Empire
Friends and Family
The Office Manager
K.A.T. Antiques
Aslanov
The Lawyers of Mars
Fancy Free
Time Loop
In the Rift
Double Dragon
Doctor Inferno
Stone
Writing as Zoey Ivers
YA Cyberpunk Adventures:
The Barton Street Gym
Chicago
Atlantis+
Fantasy:
Demi God
Good god.
1) If it’s in the back of the books (instead up front for the Read Inside), no potential buyer can see it while shopping.
2) Adding a sequence number within series would be optimal, but if you insert new material all over the place, forget I said anything 🙂 .
3) Now I have to figure out where to store this for my continued shopping pleasure…
That list would use up a good chunk of the Read Inside, which is kinda bad.
I like how Draft 2 Digital lets you put them in back.
I don’t see Immortal Soul or Lost Boy on the list.
Dang. You’re right.
And I should put in “reading order” numbers for the overlapping bits.
The problem with the first three is that they wind in and out of each other. A “reading order” would have you wandering back and forth – and probably missing some things at either end of the series (except, obviously, for Wine of the Gods, the ancestor of all).
Oh, and heading off to lay hands on the new one just as soon as I hit post here.
Yes, please. That would help a lot.
Also, enjoyed Twist of Fate. I read it twice already and the then went back and reread Home World. It was neat how small details in that book suddenly seemed much richer/bigger for having been expanded in the new book.
Isn’t Aslanov well before Home World, chronologically?
I told Henry when he read them to read Home World before Destiny. He forgot, of course, and clicked the read next button, but then was all “Ma, who’s R*? Should I know him? I don’t remember him.” I think in terms of reading order that’s worth mentioning, that those two are sequential in that order, and it helps to read them in that order.
*Not writing out the character name for avoidence of any potential spoilers.
Hi,
I saw this post a couple of days ago and I agree, a line on the cover saying sequel to XXX would be really helpful.
Hi,
First, new book hurray!
Second, the series order question:
The K.A.T. Antiques book blurb caught my attention again after I tried the early books in the series years ago and bounced hard off of, I think, Black Goats, and since then, I’ve been reading (and re-reading) the overlapping series back-to-back-to-back mostly following the main characters in their internal sequence.
Checking my Kindle purchases dates I started with K.A.T., then the rest of the Alliance series, where it took me a while to realize that the early action in Home World took place before the start of Code Name Igor.
After reading all the Alliance books to date, I moved onto Ice’s four books, Moles through Destroyer and met the Oners. That lead me to Rael’s stories starting with Empire of the One and continued to Freshmen.
I followed Rael with Ebsa, Paer, and Ra’d in the Directorate sub series, which was, thankfully numbered, and when I got around to Last Merge it stated where it overlapped with Fort Dinosaur.
Then some filling in with other stories with primarily Oner characters, then backfilled Xen’s early days on Comet Fall, starting with Dark Lady and Growing Up Magic, which eventually caught me up to Empire of the One. Finished the backfill with the Eldon stories and have mostly caught up.
Having read the intertwined series in about the most confusing possible order, I have been thinking of making a flow chart, similar the the Discworld reading order flow charts, outlining the different main arcs and series entrance points, but I haven’t gotten around to it yet. I have a strong preference for internal order, but also prefer to follow one or two main characters through at a time. (I read the later Ton Clancy books about three times each in immediate succession because I would start with Jack Ryan’s plot thread and read it to the end, then pick-up a major secondary character and read that through, then finally read the book cover to cover as written. I think the Wine of the Gods series is similar with interwoven stories writ huge.)
If you are thinking of updating cover/ back matter/ first page info, I would recommend three lines of information, something like:
Wine of the Gods Multiverse # (numbered in strict publication order),
Primary World with a timing clue (Alliance during the fall or Comet Fall early days),
Main character(s) with local/their home world’s date at the beginning.
Forex, Guardsman would be:
Wine of the Gods Book 43,
Empire of the One (Post- Helios)
Lucky Dave and Rael – 1413 yp
Or Home World would be:
Wine of the Gods #
Alliance (Before the Fall)
Roland – 3736
Thanks and off to buy the new book!
Thinking about this again… Here’s what I might do, if I were in your position…
Write a little essay “guide booklet”, (make it Kindle Unlimited,) and offer it for free from your website. Might be 5-20 pages – whatever it took to properly provide a guide to the reader from various reading perspectives: following main character threads / following particular location threads / friends & family threads / following timelines as a whole / publication order (the least important, perhaps). Use the essay format to expand it from a “simple” sequenced list so that you can elaborate along the lines of “If you want to follow X, then…But if you’d rather Y, then…”. I would make it obvious in the cover/title/book entry that the guide gets updated all the time. I could still use the descriptive text for each new book to say “this follows X title in this series…” for the casual shopper.
Every time I publish a new work, I would update the little guidebook and republish that, too. I could still use subseries names and numbers for the more casual reader.
Not sure if this fits what you want, but Wine of the Gods books 1 and at least the first part of book 2 should be in the same volume.
I was extremely non-plussed by book 1 ending where/how it did and felt a bit let down. I finally read book 2 a few months later then rushed through several because I got the point of the whole exercise in a way the current book 1 alone does not.
When selling people on the series I tell them to read book 1 and book 2 as one.
It’s been a while since I read the earlier books in the series, but I remember thinking that the first few books were just set up to give an introduction to Xen. (I miss Xen.)
Agreed.