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About Those Lost Puppies


So what happened to Sad Puppies this year?

In a form or another, we’ve been getting this question for months.  I thought I had explained back when I announced I was “leading” it, though I’ll confess by now I expected to have done something more about it.

So, what happened?

Apparently what always happens when I’m supposed to lead: my health goes feral.

At least, thank heavens, this year, it’s not that I know cancer or even the fact I have a small brain tumor (it’s a meningioma, in the membrane that covers the brain, so no, it’s not really affecting me, except for my vision, by pressure, because it’s on top of the vision center.  Fortunately all it does is give me a slight double vision, and I trained for that for much of my undergrad.)  It’s “just” autoimmune.  but I’ve had two long and rather horrible autoimmune bouts, which means things slipped.

On top of which WORK has gone feral.  I need to finish at least five more novels this year (I intended to be at four by now) and that’s for traditional, not counting my indie career.  I’ve also picked up a three-times-a-week columnist gig, and there are other potential jobs in the horizon.  (Man, this ruined career sure is a lot of work.)

If we’d planned to do something different this year, I’d have passed it on to Amanda early.  But since what we’re planning has no defined deadline, as soon as we get it up (eh) in the next couple of months, we’ll be fine.  And we want to make sure we do it right.

So, originally, we’d planned to do nothing, and let Sad Puppies ride into the sunset with Kate’s campaign, which did everything the left claimed to want and yet was still subjected to the same complaints as ever.

But the problem with a decentralized, almost leaderless campaign is that it’s prone to be high jacked, and we realized late last year that if someone didn’t announce then someone who was wholly (really) in the rabid camp was going to take it, and make it sound like the campaigns were always one.

Oh, I know.  With Sad Puppies completely silent, the Puppy Kickers have been enthusiastically blaming us for the Rabid decisions.  Pfui. They’re like a back law firm: Obfuscate, Lie and Project.

But there was no point lending color to this by having a self-proclaimed Sad Puppy leader who’d always been on the periphery, who’s barely competent to carry his own hat in a high wind, and who thinks the whole point is to back the Rabid selections. Yeah.  No.  So I announced.

By the time I announced, I knew we’d be “late” for the Hugos.  Which was fine with me.  VERY fine.

Look, guys, I don’t believe in asking people to do things I won’t do.  Last year I didn’t pay the fee to vote, so I was done after the nomination.  Why?

Because the years before we told people to buy supporting memberships and vote.  We told them that our aesthetics were as valid as the neo-Marxist aesthetics the conventional side of the field sticks to.  Ludic enjoyment of fiction is, arguably, a better way to determine what will survive and be important than the markers of “class” and an excellent education used now.  (Yeah I know.  It’s supposedly all about the downtrodden.  Only it’s not really. It’s about showing off the Neo-Marxist aesthetics taught in the best colleges.  A fad, a passing one, and arguably a stupid one.   I don’t have time to explain the difference of aesthetics here, and hey, I did it last week at another site, so: How Do We Evaluate Art in the Kingdom of the Blind Marxist? And to the idiots who’ll come in and say that’s not Marxist critical theory.  Bah.  Before they climbed up their own ass and slapped the cool-hot (what makes a philosophy hotter than 100 million stinking corpses, after all) Marxist moniker on their involuted crap, they were already evaluating literature according to the Marxist parameters of “making a difference” and “fighting injustice” and “criticizing society.” Which has its roots in the left and in social markers for an excellent education.  It’s like medieval scholars showing off their Catholic Orthodoxy, or well… Or Shakespeare writing a lot of propaganda plays about the Tudors, which even Shakespeare couldn’t turn into anyhting but dross.  Which tells you the long term value of this trend.)

Anyway, we told people if we didn’t participate in the process, we had no reason to protest.  So people did.  We did too.

And the establishment called us names, made unfounded claims of cheating, took our money, threw themselves a really big party and insulted our nominees to boot.

After the Assterisk performance, I planted my feet like a Spanish mule and stuck fast to “I’m not giving you one red cent.  You’ll get no more from me.”

Being there, I couldn’t ask people to throw good money after bad.

Our intention was always to just create a page, in which those who register can post reading recommendations, not just of recent years, but of anything that struck their fancy.  There will be a place where you can say when the book was published and if it’s eligible for an award — and not just a science fiction award — and a link to the award page for people to follow, if so minded.  Yeah, we’ll include the Hugo, but probably with a note saying the award is in the process of self-destructing.

Thing is, I meant to have this up before nominations for the Dragon Award opened.  But on top of the comedy of errors above, our website provider either crashed or was hacked, so while trying to survive auto-immune and meeting more deliveries than UPS, I’ve been trying to get it up and running again.  (My author site is down also.)

So, that’s where we are.  We’ll put it up sometime in the next couple of months, and then Amanda and I will run it, and then Amanda will take over  Or Amanda, Kate and I will continue shepherding it.

When we said this before and pointed out that PARTICULARLY indie books need some place to mention them, we were linked to/lectured by someone one the rabid side, because apparently they already have a site, so we don’t need one of our own.

Tips hat to the right.  Thank you kindly.  But you guys are aware your aesthetics and goals aren’t ours, right?

You just turned Marxist aesthetics on their head, and are judging books by being anti-Marxist and how much they don’t support the neo Marxist idea of justice.  That’s cool and all.  To each his own.  And since, so far, your crazy isn’t being taught in schools, it’s slightly less annoying than the Marxist crazy.

It is still annoying, though, because you’re still judging literary value by whether it fits your (at least as crazy-cakes’ as the Marxists) narrative and your precepts.

Look, the Tudors won, okay?  And yet the Shakespeare plays supporting them, all but Richard III which is good for other reasons, are the worst dogs in his repertoire.

The Sad Puppies stand for literature people ENJOY reading, even if their beliefs are not those of the author.  Also, writing that is not pushing any belief, beyond the natural leaking that happens when an author writes something and puts part of him in the story.

We fully support your right to have the recommendation sites for those who read your catechism and who will enthusiastically love and adore Piers Plowman.  It’s who you are, it’s what you do, and why shouldn’t you have a site for those who think like you?

It’s not however who we are and what we do, nor does it fit our aesthetics.  (Yes, this has all been an aesthetic dispute, even if some sides think it’s politics.)

Your recommendations no more invalidate the need for a site of our own than do the recommendation sites from the left, going into exquisite detail about how “other” the author of some unreadable tome is, and how they have just the right amount of vaginitude and melanin.

So, yeah, there will be a Sad Puppies recommendation site — glowers in the vague direction of servers — soon, and then we’ll refine it and improve it through the years to become a place to find enjoyable reads.  And if people want to use it to find recommendations for awards?  I’ve seen worse hobbies.  One of my ancestors used to put “things” in bottles of alcohol.  Weird plants, snakes, that sort of thing. Voting on awards, at least, does not ruin good alcohol.

And that’s where the Sad Puppies are.  They didn’t run away.  They’re just sleeping in the mud room.  Sooner or later they’ll wake and play.  Until then, you can sit and watch the circus and the monkeys, neither of which belong to us.

Which is a lovely thing, as we all on this site have “ruined” careers to work at, which seem to involve a lot of work and, thank heavens, regular pay checks.

I’ll announce the site here, when it’s up.

  1. paladin3001 #

    Glad to hear that SP are just resting. Love the ideas you have for the future of them.

    June 20, 2017
    • Not pining for the fjords. (*Are* there fjords in Finland?)

      June 20, 2017
  2. C4c

    June 20, 2017
  3. No worries. We’re here, God-willing, when we’re needed

    June 20, 2017
  4. BobtheRegisterredFool #

    I’m tempted to argue that Shakespeare’s Tudor plays were great, but lacking even minimal knowledge and familiarity am without even the thinnest shred of a case. Wait, except for pro Shakespeare Chauvinism.

    June 20, 2017
    • But, but…. the Agincourt speech!

      June 20, 2017
      • Okay, that is good. I mean SHAKESPEARE was pure gold and some of it would leak through no matter how unpromising the material. BUT– the “must say proper things” dragged even ol’ William down.

        June 20, 2017
        • Between St. Crispin’s day and Mistress Quickly reporting the death of Falstaff, Henry V is a play I can’t do without. Admittedly I wouldn’t be terribly unhappy if the two parts of Henry IV disappeared. Suspect I could do without the parts of Henry VI as well, but it’s been a long time.

          June 20, 2017
          • Michael Brazier #

            The two Henry IV plays rest on Falstaff and the Prince – who are two of Shakespeare’s immortal characters, and I will fight you if you say otherwise. Henry IV 1, Henry IV 2 and Henry V will be staged as long as English is spoken.

            The Henry VI plays, though – yeah, I don’t think anyone cares about them. Those are the ones written just to please Elizabeth I.

            June 21, 2017
          • I heartily agree. For that matter throw Romeo and Juliet under the hay wagon with Henry IV and Henry VIII.

            June 21, 2017
  5. CACS #

    …,they were already evaluating literature according to the Marxist parameters of “making a difference” and “fighting injustice” and “criticizing society.” Which has its roots in the left and in social markers for an excellent education.

    This is so entrenched at the elite schools that the people who run society have gone to and now send their children. In some cases it is approaching four generations of this. Which, if you are looking on from the side lines is a bit of a scream — funny and all too tragic.

    June 20, 2017
  6. CACS #

    After the Assterisk performance …

    If that was not deliberate it should have been.

    Although now, in my mind’s eye, there is a very bulky Gaul scratching his head and looking down at me, a bit baffled as to what his companion might have to do with all of this.

    June 20, 2017
    • The Daughter Unit loved those comic books. I think they were the first thing she learned to read.

      June 20, 2017
      • CACS #

        Oh how marvelous.

        I had a sadly deprived childhood and was ignorant of their existence until The Spouse introduced me to them.

        June 20, 2017
      • We still have all of them, in three languages.

        June 20, 2017
      • William Underhill, Barbarian 1st Class #

        Those comics gave me my vested interest in learning French, as that was the first language I encountered them in.

        June 20, 2017
      • I love those books too; sadly most of them got destroyed in the flood that happened in 2009. =( It’ll take me a long time to get them again, unless they start omnibusing the things. I kind of wish they would, so they’d be hardcover and not fall apart easily.

        June 21, 2017
    • It was deliberate. 🙂

      June 20, 2017
      • CACS #

        The Spouse explained.

        June 20, 2017
  7. CACS #

    …because apparently they already have a site…

    Pfui! If one option is all that is to be allowed what business do they have in challenging the already established Hugos?

    June 20, 2017
  8. Uncle Lar #

    Sad Puppies over four years served its purpose well, demonstrating that the Hugo Awards were the wholly owned subsidiary of Worldcon which is infested with an elite clique of literary social progressives. They own the award system, they run it, and they and they alone will determine who is worthy of consideration.
    And the result is an ever increasing number of SF&F former readers with the same story, I used to look to the Hugos for new authors to read, these days not so much. Guess I’ve just moved on. When in sad truth it was the awards and who was getting them that moved away from what folks really wanted to read.
    It is a true pity that there are those who would appropriate and subvert Sad Puppies for their own misguided aggrandizement. That said, having a formal website to recommend new and interesting books in our chosen genre is in and of itself a very good idea. Indie in particular has been needing this for some time now.

    June 20, 2017
    • CACS #

      Yes, I agree that it is a very good idea to have a site to go to find recommendations for ‘new and interesting books in our chosen genre.’

      I also wouldn’t mind the occasional suggestion regarding those authors or particular books by known authors that I might have missed.

      June 20, 2017
    • Was there ever a time when the Hugos weren’t a list of elitist-approved books to avoid? When was that time, and how did it end?

      June 20, 2017
      • Uncle Lar #

        There are any number of web sites that list the Hugo winners and finalists from its inception in 1953 to present. Go look and see when nominees stopped being something you would read or recommend to a friend.
        It’s not a sharp demarkation, but rather a gradual coup as the literary social justice crowd decided that pushing their narrative out to the fans was more important than giving them the entertainment they so desperately did and still want.

        June 20, 2017
    • Christopher M. Chupik #

      Let’s face it, if we left Sad Puppies unattended, in five years it would be taken over by CHORFs.

      June 20, 2017
  9. slab1 #

    FYI the Tudor series is my favorite after Lear.

    June 20, 2017
  10. …and how they have just the right amount of vaginitude and melanin.

    Oh, colorant?! And not melatonin. Huh. Well, such works do tend to cause drowsiness. Though this is one time when popping a pill is the better choice – fewer, and less nasty, side-effects.

    June 20, 2017
    • paladin3001 #

      Nasty side-effects may include kindle destruction, wall plastering, and head desking….individual results may vary….

      June 20, 2017
    • I resent the word “vaginitude.” It perpetuates the incredibly outdated notion that you have to have a vagina to be a woman.


      June 20, 2017
      • thephantom182 #

        Even posession of a Y chromosome is not a deal breaker these days.

        Funny how they all seem to complain they can’t get dates, though.

        June 20, 2017
  11. freddiemacblog #

    Both Puppy groups have illustrated their points quite well, and isn’t it nice to have a diversity of puppies?

    I had also had used the Hugo/Nebula award winner as the hallmark of a good read in the past, but (without even thinking about it) stopped using that as a qualifier in the early 2000s. Having a front-row seat to the Hugo implosion has been both amusing and disheartening, but I have hopes that the Dragons will become a good replacement.

    The most difficult part of the Hugo conflagration has been the authors, whether I read then or knew of them, who felt obligated to denigrate the Puppies as a whole. That and pulling the mask off of TOR … the idea that wrongthink/badfun made a person’s money unworthy? I had no idea that denigrating your customer base was a proven method of growing a market — shows what I know.

    On the other hand, watching the diversity crowd scream in horror at a Chuck Tingle book? What, are you a dinophobe? Hater! (some days, there isn’t enough popcorn)

    June 20, 2017
    • I did find myself wondering a bit if some truly believed the garp they said or if they just had a need kiss Tradition Publisher [DONKEY]. Then decided it did not matter, they went and said such garp all the same. My funds are best applied elsewhere. I see no point in funding those [DONKEY]s.

      (I expect a letter from the Donkey Anti-Defamation League any moment now…)

      June 20, 2017
  12. Our intention was always to just create a page, in which those who register can post reading recommendations, not just of recent years, but of anything that struck their fancy. There will be a place where you can say when the book was published and if it’s eligible for an award — and not just a science fiction award — and a link to the award page for people to follow, if so minded.

    This sounds fantastic. Can’t wait! 😀

    June 20, 2017
  13. thephantom182 #

    “Our intention was always to just create a page, in which those who register can post reading recommendations, not just of recent years, but of anything that struck their fancy.”

    This can be an incredibly valuable tool, given the sheer volume of Indy material being pushed out every week. I would love to have some place to go, that I can read reviews and suggestions from people who are enthusiastic about the kinds of things I like. Currently Goodreads is like the Hugo, if a thing has lots of stars I’ll probably not like it that much.

    I would also love a place where I can plug my books, written with the Sad Puppy Alignment in mind. That would be SWEET. I’ll be happy to wait for the page to be up, so I can debut my stuff there.

    It will be interesting to see how the flapping jawed ChinaMike and Cameltoe mangle this announcement into some sort of Hate Manifesto and collusion with the Vox Day minions of hatey hatin’ hatred. Interesting in the way a train hitting a dinosaur would be. Spectacularly grotesque, not something one sees every day, and best viewed from a distance.

    June 20, 2017
  14. Nathan #

    Considering that a good chunk of Rabids went Pulp Rev and Superversive, I’m not sure which anti-Marxist being talked about.

    June 20, 2017
    • I don’t remember mentioning an inquisition? WHAT did the link that sent you here say, precisely? I simply said our criteria are different. While I have published with superversive, the book was more preachy than I prefer, in general. So, not my criteria.

      June 20, 2017
      • Nathan #

        Sarah, I’m a long time reader here, and an occasional, although lapsed, commenter. My point was, as both Superversive and Pulp Rev have essentially taken the majority of the Rabid literature talk–and writing–in a third direction from Rabids and Sads, I do not know who you are aiming your fire at since neither group has “turned Marxist aesthetics on their head, and are judging books by being anti-Marxist and how much they don’t support the neo Marxist idea of justice. That’s cool and all. To each his own. And since, so far, your crazy isn’t being taught in schools, it’s slightly less annoying than the Marxist crazy.” So what’s with the blue-on-blue fire?

        June 20, 2017
        • I don’t care if you’re my cousin twice removed.
          Answer me this: why is it the last time I mentioned taking Sad Puppies in a review/recommend direction, there were posts calling us names and saying that there were already those (on the rabid side) and how stupid could we be?
          And now two of you come in talking of inquisition and oyster forks (Were you all out of moon ferrets?) because I said that we’ve got different aesthetics (we do. Yes, I’ve read some of those reviews) and that we think we should have our own site.
          You mean in the entire World Wide Web, there is no place for more than a self-identifying non-Marxist review site?
          I get it, there is only one judge of good and you’re his prophets.
          We prefer to talk without someone putting their hands up our rears to move our lips.
          It’s a matter of taste. We promise not to use you electrons, if you stop being mad at us for daring to have an opinion. How about that?
          Or don’t stop being mad at us. We frankly couldn’t care less. But could you stop acting like lunatics? It scares the cats.

          June 21, 2017
          • Nathan #

            There are four different movements that are Puppy descended: Sad, Rabid, Superversive, and Pulp Rev. You have repeatedly smeared two of them with the actions of the Rabids. And you have for a long time. Some of the flak you got last time came after you mistook Pulp Rev for Rabids. Like you are now.

            Pulp Rev is generally apolitical with an emphasis on entertainment and adventure. It started out of a dissatisfaction with the short fiction put forward by the Hugo SMOFs, the Sads, and the Rabids, and has turned into a group of authors, critics, and fans who are now busy trying to bring back a little of that pulp spirit into today’s works. And, as far as message goes, most of us prefer the Burroughs approach: none. Our ideas tend to be complimentary to Human Wave and the ones you mentioned in this post.

            So, if you will indulge a little WWII analogy, all I’m asking is that in your haste to fight Germans that you spend a moment first to make sure they aren’t actually Swiss.

            Or, to bring it back to Sad Puppies, yes, Sarah, you’re right, Straw Larry is a dick.

            June 21, 2017
            • There are four different movements that are Puppy descended: Sad, Rabid, Superversive, and Pulp Rev.

              What is this, the Argument from Atomisation? Do we need to set up all-new wikis every time the Judean People’s Front splits into the New Judean People’s Front and the People’s Front of Judea? Why in hell is Sarah, or anybody, supposed to keep up with all the minutiae of such schisms on the Rabid side.

              Because, from the Sad Puppy, leave-me-alone-and-stop-bitching-about-what-I-read side, all that schisming and “nuh uh, they’re different from me” smacks of Scientology’s endless list of “non-Scientology” organizations (The Way To Happinesss, Narconon, Bridge Publications, et freaking cetera).

              You have repeatedly smeared two of them with the actions of the Rabids. And you have for a long time. Some of the flak you got last time came after you mistook Pulp Rev for Rabids. Like you are now.

              Far as I can tell, both the “smeared” groups are Rabids, but under a different name. The onus is not on Sarah to keep up with how many angels each subgroup thinks can dance on the head of a pin.

              June 21, 2017
            • TL/DR: The ONLY Puppy movement I care about is the Sad Puppies.
              This should be TL/DC about your opinions in any way, shape form or extraction.
              This is not what you say or what you care about.
              You’re extending “puppy movements” in such a way that Human Wave started way before the puppies would also be included.
              Read my lips: don’t care, don’t think you have superior knowledge.
              You came in hinting darkly at “inquisitions” and now you want to lecture me?
              I’m going to do what I’m going to do, and you can go soak your head.
              I WAS there in the councils of the movement and it’s a funny thing Nathan. You weren’t.
              If a mere threat of making our side of the movement into a recommendation/review page sends you into paroxysms of angst and lecturing, perhaps you ain’t living right.

              June 21, 2017
          • Um. Mrs. Hoyt. You said about “his” (Superversive, Pulp revolution” -?)

            “… You just turned Marxist aesthetics on their head, and are judging books by being anti-Marxist and how much they don’t support the neo Marxist idea of justice.”

            That’s grossly unfair. Both Superversive and Pulp Revolution have their own vision of what the virtue arete of Story is. One is geared more toward “does it build up, over and around?” whilst the other demands a fun plot. Both insist on a “sensa-wunda” if it’s spec fic.

            They are only anti-Marxist by default, since embracing Marxism pretty much guarantees you won’t get either exciting fun-for-it’s own sake tales or pro-Western Civilization themes.

            Yes, they may not be precisely your cuppa. So what? The campaign to end Puppy-related sadness was about exposing the corruption of the self-appointed gate-keepers and shining a light on entertaining SF. The Superversives and the Pulp Revolutionaries are both subsets of that category.

            I agree that calling /granting either movement the Campaign vs Puppy Tears would be a mistake. The “Sad Puppies” is much broader than that.

            But stating that either is just a brain-dead reflexive “Let’s be anti-whatever the Marxists are doing is” false. And implying that no-one from either group could be trusted to helm the Campaign whilst you’re out sick is … unreasonable.

            Of course, if I misread you, and you were talking about some third group about which I know nothing, and about which either assertion could be true, I apologise pending running-and-finding out about it.

            June 26, 2017
            • I was talking about another blog, whose reviews I read, and who took offense at the idea of US having a review and recommend site months ago (which superversive didn’t) yes. Superversive was brought up by a commenter.

              June 26, 2017
              • Thanks.

                June 26, 2017
                • To be fair I should have made that clearer, but THAT commenter was so out of the left field for me I couldn’t track whatever the crap he was saying, so I answered him because I KNOW one of his names and where he blogs. I answering HIM not his comment.

                  June 27, 2017
                  • Makes sense. The original post had me nodding along. It didn’t go sideways until the comments. Hope you’re enjoying much refreshment of spirit at LibertyCon.

                    June 29, 2017
      • Michael Brazier #

        Nobody mentions the anti-Marxist Inquisition! Its chief weapon is anonymity. Anonymity and fear.
        Its two chief weapons are anonymity and fear. And ruthless commercialism.
        Its three chief weapons are anonymity, fear and ruthless commercialism. And an absolute devotion to the International Lord of Hate.
        … never mind, I’ll post again.

        June 21, 2017
  15. Peter #

    1) “Tips hat to the right. Thank you kindly. But you guys are aware your aesthetics and goals aren’t ours, right?”

    2) “You just turned Marxist aesthetics on their head, and are judging books by being anti-Marxist and how much they don’t support the neo Marxist idea of justice.”

    1) And your aesthetics and goals aren’t ours, either. But you don’t notice the majority of us pushing you away and acting like we stepped in something unpleasant.

    2) Balderdash. Keep being scandalized by people who don’t know which is the oyster fork. You might not overcome the SJWs with the Rabids, but you’ll certainly lose without them.

    Protip: proclaiming the Rabids/Not-Sads to be Other isn’t a good look, especially when your habit is to smear with generalities, and you should stop it. That part of the unCivil War can wait until the SJWs have been driven off the field. Then, and only then, can the infighting begin, as it always has.

    June 20, 2017
    • thephantom182 #

      “You might not overcome the SJWs with the Rabids, but you’ll certainly lose without them.”

      Lose what? Its not a contest. There’s no prize at the end.

      This year, Rabid Puppies aka Vox Day and followers are still beating the empty pinata that is WorldCon. Good for you, have fun. Sad Puppies, aka Sarah and followers, are not doing that this year. We’re doing something else.

      That’s the whole discussion.

      If you mean the larger culture war, I think we pretty much won already. Because President Trump. Love him or hate him, Trump doesn’t get to be president if the Lefties are winning the culture war.

      Personally, I see no more point in using SF to make conservative political propaganda that I see using it to make Lefty propaganda. SF/F is about stretching out and imagining the awesome, the previously unimagined. New thoughts, new stories. For me, that’s the thing.

      Rabid Puppies seem much more goal oriented. Which is fine, and probably a good idea as well. I approve. But it isn’t my thing.

      June 20, 2017
      • Nathan #

        Modern SF has always been about a message, from Campbell’s technological optimism to Futurian Marxism to today’s nonsense. But before Campbell, entertainment was considered to be fiction’s purpose.

        Regress harder.

        June 20, 2017
        • Good LORD. If you don’t know the difference between “being about message” and “having a message” you are lost in the weeds.
          Who sold you on the idea that good entertainment is Piers Plowman? Who sold you on the idea that preaching is good?
          CAMPBELL? PFUI AND HELL the stories he published had a message. They weren’t a message.
          Believe it or not I’ve enjoyed left leaning authors, occasionally.
          When the Rabids’ leader went after Terry Pratchett, arguably the best author in recent memory, certainly the one who reached most people, as being double plus ungood because said leader disagrees with him, he was about as coherent as the Heinlein haters. Oh, wait, he hates Heinlein too.
          The way to win the cultural war is not to act like an asshole and draw the line on the message. It’s to write and promote good stories that aren’t actively Marxist. Then the SJW crap stands revealed for what it is, and the SJWs have to find real jobs.
          If you think you’re going to win hearts and minds with preaching, carry on. We’re not stopping you. Remember to shout earnestly at them through the letter flap. That will convince them!
          Going to a cultural war without the earnest scolds as your allies is sort of like going to a war without the French as your allies, doing technological innovation without the Italians as your allies, or going deer hunting without an accordion.
          You carry on with you’ bad selves. Nothing but love.

          June 20, 2017
          • Nathan #

            You’re aiming at the wrong target. Pulp Rev, not straw Rabids. As Ellison said, “Before you can first educate, you must entertain.” And Burroughs, “I would not look to any fiction writer, living or dead, for guidance upon any subject, and, therefore, if he does not entertain, he is a total loss.”

            June 20, 2017
            • Yep. Mrs. Hoyt is not happy to have the “Sads” and “Rabids” conflated, but seems unwilling to acknowledge that the Pulp Revs might not enjoy her doing the same to them.

              As for the Superversives, she and I appear to disagree that having an evil theme is a real fault in an entertaining story, while having a noble theme uplifts a merely moderately entertaining story into something very good, and a very entertaining story to greatness.

              Fair enough. Since we do agree that said nobility won’t salvage shoddy work and boring stories, I think it’s enough to be going on with.

              But since 80% of what she fight for overlaps with what we fight for, perhaps we could instead pledge to assist the Campaign to End Puppy Related Sadness website rather than criticizing the focus of it’s current doyenne?

              June 26, 2017
              • Superversive was NOT brought up by me. Note I named no blog in that post. WHY someone decided I was talking about superversive and came after me, I’m not 100% sure I’m sure it suited SOMEONE’S agenda.

                BTW Superversive was too “on the nose” for me, but I still played. It doesn’t mean it’s bad, just that’s not where I play. I noted some of the reviews complained about the too ideological/preachy.
                I’ve enjoyed stories at that level, but they play to the converted, not to flipping the culture. Again, that’s a matter of preference — individual — not judgement. But it leaves quite a bit of room for us.

                June 26, 2017
    • 1. That might be because the SPs are actually less unpleasant than the RPs, as a general rule.

      2. You seem to be confused. Turning Marxism on its head and then playing by the same rules isn’t “not knowing which is the oyster fork.” It’s “not knowing how to be a decent human being.”

      June 20, 2017
    • What in the actual hell? Where did I say anything about the oyster fork? I have repeatedly said my only criteria is LUDIC. Vox’s isn’t. Fine. his thing. Who is otherizing whom, precisely?
      Again, what did the referring link say, precisely that you come here to yell at us?

      June 20, 2017
    • You might not overcome the SJWs with the Rabids, but you’ll certainly lose without them.

      You can’t hold me accountable for my actions. You need me.

      Said every psychopath ever.


      Pro tip 1: Using “pro tip” to condescendingly give advice went out in 2014, poochie.

      Pro tip 2: Sarah has upwards of 40 published novels. You, on the other hand, are such a heroic hero of heroism that you decline to share your last name, so that us plebs in the peanut gallery can assess the quality of your pro-ness. Want to give pro tips? Gotta convince the people you’re sneering at that you are, in fact, a professional at something.

      proclaiming the Rabids/Not-Sads to be Other isn’t a good look, especially when your habit is to smear with generalities, and you should stop it.

      Oy, what a lame yenta you are. Tsk, tsk, it just doesn’t look good.

      That part of the unCivil War can wait until the SJWs have been driven off the field. Then, and only then, can the infighting begin, as it always has.

      It’s cute how you think your non-authority gives you the right to tell everybody what to do and how to do it.

      You should probably go where somebody gives half a shit what your opinion is before offering it, pumpkinhead.

      June 21, 2017
    • What’s this about overcoming the SJWs or driving them off the field? Since when was that a goal?

      June 21, 2017
      • Patrick Chester #

        It’s the goal of the ones lecturing us, I guess.

        Which leads me to believe they have no problem with cliques acting as gatekeepers to what is “proper” SF… they just want their clique to be in charge of the gatekeeping.

        June 22, 2017
  16. Just a sketch from work, hope to get a real drawing done of it soon though…

    June 20, 2017
    • thephantom182 #


      June 20, 2017
  17. Based on the reports of this year’s Book Expo, the proglodytes are committing suicide faster than we can wreck them…

    June 20, 2017
    • I know. And the scuttlebutt friends are reporting of the inner workings of houses-not-baen are even worse.

      June 20, 2017
      • Perhaps someone will someday say more on this.

        June 21, 2017
        • Right now, all I have is confidential, so, no.

          June 21, 2017
  18. Christopher M. Chupik #

    You can always tell when the Vilers haven’t actually read the post Glyer links to:

    “(Oneiros on June 21, 2017 at 12:03 am said: 9) I just don’t understand why they’re so attached to the Sad Puppies brand. Why not cut the bullshit and just set up a weekly or monthly recommendation column on MGC for indie authors? They can plug books that they’re excited about or have some buzz about them, their readers can plug books, indie authors can drop in and plug their books. It’d be a fun space for indie authors and their readers to interact and celebrate the fiction they love, instead of using everything to try and stick a knife into something else.”

    June 21, 2017
    • Uncle Lar #

      Obviously written by someone not a regular. We already do a good bit of that on both weekly and monthly centers. What Sarah is proposing is a website dedicated to that effort so as to leave MGC and ATH free to deal with what they do best, items of interest in the world at ATH, and items of interest to writers here at MGC.

      June 21, 2017
      • Christopher M. Chupik #

        All they know is what Glyer feeds them.

        June 21, 2017
    • thephantom182 #

      Chris, you made me look, dammit. ChinaMike: “After a lengthy recap of her version of history, she reaches the tentative present:”

      The innuendo, so rich with dank smells and slimy feels.

      From the comments, obviously none of them came to read it. I’d sooner burn $40 than see it go to a WorldCon membership, now that I know who will be spending it. The Hugo crown is safe from me.

      June 21, 2017
      • Draven #

        yeah, they said they don’t need my money so…

        June 22, 2017
    • Patrick Chester #

      Er… I pop in here not too often, but you guys do have postings plugging indie books plus other articles giving advice on writing stories and such.

      June 22, 2017
    • J. M. Anjewierden #

      I seem to recall my first big bump in sales for my debut book came from exactly that. Heck, all of the noticeable bumps in sales for my two books over the last two months came from promo posts here, the 1st Sunday thread in the diner, and a simple link to the book that got picked up on a few of the sites like PJ.

      June 23, 2017
  19. Kristina #

    Adorkable GSD pics for the win. It was the 2014 Hugo battle that made me realize that they really don’t care about their reader base anymore. Or give it out to books that challenge everyone. Or somehow change the face of sci fi in new and interesting ways. There’s reasons why these classics still sell years later.

    So much thanks sad puppers, you guided me to light that is awesome indie stories. Baen book levels were never effected in my library. They have only grown in influence.

    I think in the past 3 years I’ve gotten maybe 5 TOR books. Mainly because Weber’s Safehold stuff and the Expanse books.

    June 22, 2017
  20. lampwright #

    Praying for you, that both health and writing ideas rain down upon you in spades!

    June 22, 2017
  21. Crazy delayed, but (you knew this was coming, right?): Ox slow.

    Seen that “Sad Puppies” is a “dead brand” and… maybe that is right. But this is not about resurrection. The SP’s real, original job (showing the Hugos were exactly what some said they were) has been done. Done. Over. “It’s dead, Jim.” and all that.

    BUT this is about zombie prevention where some well-meaning fool (or ill-meaning bastage) co-opts the “dead brand” to purpose(s) its creators would never serve. Having SP go sideways, fade away, or into.. I dunno.. spork manufacture or something.. would be fine. Serving a purpose counter to its origins would not be.

    June 24, 2017
    • Yep. I find it hilarious I’m being attacked, when I named NO ONE and am in fact just trying to prevent my name from being backwards-associated with stuff like “run SJWs out of publishing” which is a) impossible. b) stupid. Let them wallow in their own stuff. If they like it fine. If they have enough market, fine. We just want to do our own stuff.

      June 24, 2017
    • TomT #

      Are you saying we should make SP Oyster sporks?

      June 25, 2017
  22. Yeah, after the asterisk deal I decided that they didn’t need to party on my dime, let them implode.

    June 26, 2017
    • Precisely this. The party on our dime while treating us like invaders was the last straw.

      June 26, 2017
  23. Asko #

    Sad Puppies accomplished its goal. Lurkers like me are aware of the shenanigans and choose our purchases accordingly. Larry has made a LOT of money off me.

    Think you are going to persuade anyone, to wake up and say, oh gee, I was wrong all these years? Then you don’t have any leftie friends who are still yapping on about the American election. Organising a new slate won’t get any more of your books sold, but you are wasting time and energy fighting a pointless battle.

    The Ace of Spades weekly book column is my main source of book recommendations. Like the old Bits and Bites tv commercial, you never know what you will get!

    June 26, 2017
    • yeah, I like the Ace of Spades.
      And yeah, I agree with you. All I’m doing is setting up a site which, as we develop our software (will take a couple of years) will be more and more automated.

      See, part of what I’m trying to do — very important — is create parallel structures, so we can never be bricked off the market again for our politics. This is part of it. And as anyone who has built computer or social systems will tell you “redundant is better.”

      June 26, 2017

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